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Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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Old 11-14-2011, 09:27 PM   #151
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

I don't think it's so cut and dry that it's "now clear Mike Shanahan won't build a great team here"
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:31 PM   #152
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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Do you think there is a trend towards moving in the direction away from big name free agents and towards draft selections? If you think there is progress in this direction, what do you make of the 2010 offseason w/McNabb, the coaching hires, the Haynesworth saga, the way Hall/Rogers/Landry were managed, the defensive moves?

I think I can tell which way you are leaning with your last paragraph, but do tell me, how much confidence do you have that come May 2012, this is actually the path we are on?
Yes, I believe that starting in 2011, more emphasis is being placed on the draft. In 2010, we had fewer choices, which limited how much could be accomplished after trading the 2nd round pick for McNabb. As for the Haynesworth mess, Snyder and Cerrato tried to get cute with the cap by pushing Al's huge $20M bonus to the uncapped 2010 year. I sense that Shanny tried to make it work by communicating with Haynesworth before that bonus was paid. In hindsight, Shanny probably should have cut Al sooner when it was apparent that he wasn't getting with the program. Regarding the DBs, Snyder and Cerrato tied Shanny's hands by giving Hall a big contract after less than half a season here. Rogers is clearly the better cover corner, and is finally holding onto the ball in SF, the change of scenery has been good for him. Landry should be re-signed, but not for Ed Reed money. We have decent tools defensively, but the offense is bereft, starting with the O-line and QB. It's time to stop neglecting those positions, and I believe they will be addressed early in the draft.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:32 PM   #153
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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I guess now it is a moot point, but with the way that Hank was going up in the air and attacking the ball, I don't know why they didn't throw a fade into the endzone and let Hank outjump the CBs. We could technically do the same with Davis, but he just doesn't attack the ball enough to beat the DBs.
I was listening to the radio today and a comment was made that Hankerson although big and plays big never seems to get yards after the carry. He jumps for the ball fights for it whatever then falls to the ground. I agree with you on the fades. Maybe he turns out to be our possession WR. Which basically means we need a WR who is going to catch the ball in stride and get yards after the catch..... but thats assuming we have a QB who can deliver the ball to the WR in stride. lol.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:33 PM   #154
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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Given the improvement of the defense this year when compared to last year, you'd think they'll get even better next season. Given that, if we draft the right QB next year, I think playoffs are a reasonable expectation. We've seen it enough times now in the NFL- rookie QBs can succeed (even with a lockout for pete's sake).

Injuries are a big IF though. If that rookie QB is playing well and then loses his best RB, starting TE (who is a great run blocker), best WR, and 3/5 of his offensive line, are the playoffs a reasonable expectation? Not as much...
Fair points, all of them.

So lets say that this last scenario happens and the Redskins go 6-10. Now what? Shanahan probably resigns after a 17-31 record, but what if he doesn't?

My thing is this: the answer should be simple. If he's the right guy for the job, nothing in terms of injuries and losing should change that between now and the end of 2012. But the Shanahan era has exceeded simple losing. It's just really ugly. The players don't even believe anymore. The Redskins are no less dysfunctional now than they were under Cerrato. In light of this evidence, I'm not seeing a Shanahan super bowl in 2014...so long as we don't fire him first.

I don't think anyone else is seeing that either. But some talk as if it's a reasonable certainty we'll give away if we get impatient and fire him now.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:39 PM   #155
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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Fair points, all of them.

So lets say that this last scenario happens and the Redskins go 6-10. Now what? Shanahan probably resigns after a 17-31 record, but what if he doesn't?

My thing is this: the answer should be simple. If he's the right guy for the job, nothing in terms of injuries and losing should change that between now and the end of 2012. But the Shanahan era has exceeded simple losing. It's just really ugly. The players don't even believe anymore. The Redskins are no less dysfunctional now than they were under Cerrato. In light of this evidence, I'm not seeing a Shanahan super bowl in 2014...so long as we don't fire him first.

I don't think anyone else is seeing that either. But some talk as if it's a reasonable certainty we'll give away if we get impatient and fire him now.
I think our history with coaches under Snyder is the biggest factor in what has people apprehensive about cutting bait with Shanahan after just two seasons. It's the fear of "more of the same," even if letting Shanny walk is in fact the best call (I don't know if it is, but I'm starting to lean that way).

Any other team with a reasonable history as far as head coaches go... Shanny is on the hot seat big time. But we've done it the same way for 10+ years. Maybe we'll be patient to a fault this time around. Either way, we can't get out of our own way.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:42 PM   #156
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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I don't think it's so cut and dry that it's "now clear Mike Shanahan won't build a great team here"
I think it is cut and dry. Which is not to say that other opinions don't have merit. I could be totally jumping the gun here.

But, in my opinion, the future for Shanahan isn't a wait-and-see mystery any more. It's been 25 weeks of the same thing. I think we can go back to being the 2010 offense when we get a quarterback, but I think a successful offense is going to take fresh ideas, among an influx of talent.

The offense also needs a new vision. Since we have nothing built, I'd just pull the trigger now and start from scratch. That's just me though.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:44 PM   #157
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

I agree with Tripp about 2010, I mean might as well kept McNabb He's better than these bums
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:45 PM   #158
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

It's probably not just you...but it's not me.

Anyway, here's a question for you. Brady Quinn? Yes? No?
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:47 PM   #159
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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I think our history with coaches under Snyder is the biggest factor in what has people apprehensive about cutting bait with Shanahan after just two seasons. It's the fear of "more of the same," even if letting Shanny walk is in fact the best call (I don't know if it is, but I'm starting to lean that way).

Any other team with a reasonable history as far as head coaches go... Shanny is on the hot seat big time. But we've done it the same way for 10+ years. Maybe we'll be patient to a fault this time around. Either way, we can't get out of our own way.
Bolded: totally agree, which is what is causing some to miss what would otherwise appear very clear, IMO. Ask a non-Redskins fan who isn't scarred by Snyder being a megalomanic owner whether Shanahan can win a super bowl in the next three years, and you'll be laughed out of the room. Shanahan has been more senile and paranoid than cunning and clever. But if you've been with the team for a while: no Shanahan means Snyder gets to pick the next guy and...why would that be better?

My assertion is not to convince the world that the next head coach is going to be better than Shanahan -- he might not be -- but that's the thing that's holding me to this franchise, so I'm going to believe it (even irrationally, if necessary).
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:49 PM   #160
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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It's probably not just you...but it's not me.

Anyway, here's a question for you. Brady Quinn? Yes? No?
Gun to my head? No.

Without the gun? A question: What's the cost? More Shanahan? No way. In a fresh start, new system? I can see the upside.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:50 PM   #161
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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I don't think Shanny has done a poor job with the draft selections he's made. Kerrigan, Jenkins, and Hankerson all seem like they'll be good players in this league. Perry Riley looks good, too. And Maurice Hurt is able to crack the lineup despite being a 7th rounder. He's brought in some decent talent.

However, I think his decisions at the QB position have been nothing short of disastrous, and he should bear the full blame. Also, with regard to the QB position and the draft, I think the net negative of both not selecting a QB (not even a developmental later round pick) and trading high picks for McNabb is a terrible gaffe.
Believe me I'm not happy that the team didn't draft a QB last year, but they didn't. Was it disasterous? I don't think so. We could look at this several different ways;

ie: they don't draft Kerrigan and opponants double Orakpo slowing our pass rush giving QB's all day to throw and pick us apart.

ie: the team drafts a QB but virtually no decent WR's to catch the ball and the ones we have run wrong routes... wait thats part of our problem now WR wise.

I don't think there was one QB in the bunch during MS's first draft that was really worth running out and taking or that would have been available when the Skins picked. Last year clearly Newton has turned out to be pretty good and I didn't think he would, other then that the others have been pretty quiet besides Dalton whom I wanted the team to pick.

Luck will be out of reach for the Skins, more then likely the Colts will take him unless something drastically happens while he's in college or the team simply doesn't think he will work out in their system. Word on the street is Miami's owner is infatuated with Luck, so if the Colts don't take him I'm pretty sure Miami will. Our best bet is to look at the rest and look at taking the most accurate WR available, hopefully he's mobile and can throw a deep ball. Mobility is a moot point though if KS is going to call plays that keep the QB in the pocket. So accuracy and deep ball is a must.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:54 PM   #162
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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It's probably not just you...but it's not me.

Anyway, here's a question for you. Brady Quinn? Yes? No?
Quinn, no. Clausen for a late 5th or less, yes.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:57 PM   #163
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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I think the only difference between you and I is that I think the 2012 draft is too critical to leave to an administration that is just going to get whacked at midseason next year for lack of results. If a change is needed, we should make it with the intention of getting the right people in here to draft the next QB. I can't justify letting the Shanahan's pick a quarterback in the first round in a desperate attempt to salvage the mess they created.
Well lets look at it reasonably....

If MS takes a QB this year and bombs would DS fire him? I personally doubt it because MS still has 2 yrs left on his contract, but I've been wrong before.

But lets say for arguements sake the team does draft a QB and the team still does bad (most likely due to a lack of quality OL or backups, and decent WR's), and MS is fired..... more then likely the team would have to be just as bad or worse and not showing improvement so the team goes 4-12 last yr, this year 3-13, either another 3-13 or worse which I'd guess would give the Skins another top 5 pick for whoever DS desides to bring in as HC and giving said HC an opportunity to draft his QB for his system.

The good point in all this..... we either start getting better next year or MS is fired and we end up with 2 young hopefully talented QB's to develope for the future.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:02 PM   #164
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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I think the only difference between you and I is that I think the 2012 draft is too critical to leave to an administration that is just going to get whacked at midseason next year for lack of results. If a change is needed, we should make it with the intention of getting the right people in here to draft the next QB. I can't justify letting the Shanahan's pick a quarterback in the first round in a desperate attempt to salvage the mess they created.
Interesting perspective and probably...highly accurate.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:10 PM   #165
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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The good point in all this..... we either start getting better next year or MS is fired and we end up with 2 young hopefully talented QB's to develope for the future.
Outside of Gibbs, we've been in this crappy position twice within the last 10 yrs.(the ol ball coach and Zorn). F-ing enough is enough already.

p.s. As someone else mentioned about Zorn, his 2 yr. record was 12-20, same as the ol' ball coach. Unless MS can rally the team and win 3 more games this year.....he is who his record says he is. This abysmal performance, and worst of all no upward trend, is all on him.
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