Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

Redskins Locker Room


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-14-2011, 10:58 PM   #181
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
I've gathered from this crowdsourcing exercise that the prevailing opinion on Shanahan is that two years of failure isn't enough evidence to overturn the decision to bring him on as head coach + personnel guy.

I haven't heard anyone defend the Redskins as being on the right track.

So basically this is the coaching equivalent of the minutes during a challenge in the NFL where everyone is pretty certain the call on the field wasn't right, but we have to determine whether or not the visual evidence is indisputable. I propose that indisputable evidence is not necessary to make the best possible decision for the game going forward. I also realize I am the minority opinion on that one.
I'm not going to lie, I'm not going to make the argument because debating you can be quite frankly exhausting and a fruitless exercise. You can make strong points, but I'm just not interested, not now at least, in the next 10 pages here being a 15 paragraph per post back and forth between two people. I'd rather just wait and see what happens.

All that said, I don't think you let Shanahan go but I could see other coaching moves, including Kyle. What happens now in Houston could have a major impact on our staff next year
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 11-14-2011, 11:03 PM   #182
Living Legend
 
GTripp0012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evanston, IL
Age: 26
Posts: 15,963
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I'm not going to lie, I'm not going to make the argument because debating you can be quite frankly exhausting and a fruitless exercise. You can make strong points, but I'm just not interested, not now at least, in the next 10 pages here being a 15 paragraph per post back and forth between two people. I'd rather just wait and see what happens.

All that said, I don't think you let Shanahan go but I could see other coaching moves, including Kyle. What happens now in Houston could have a major impact on our staff next year
Yeah, I can be an ass like that. Though, I like to flatter myself and think that the reason I can write so much is because at rare times, I can be right and you can be wrong.

I'm still looking forward to next year, all things considered.
__________________
according to a source with knowledge of the situation.
GTripp0012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2011, 11:05 PM   #183
Registered User
 
SBXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,766
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
I've gathered from this crowdsourcing exercise that the prevailing opinion on Shanahan is that two years of failure isn't enough evidence to overturn the decision to bring him on as head coach + personnel guy.

I haven't heard anyone defend the Redskins as being on the right track.

So basically this is the coaching equivalent of the minutes during a challenge in the NFL where everyone is pretty certain the call on the field wasn't right, but we have to determine whether or not the visual evidence is indisputable. I propose that indisputable evidence is not necessary to make the best possible decision for the game going forward. I also realize I am the minority opinion on that one.
Well its kinda difficult to do, but it can be done. They now have several RB's who should be able to get the job done as long as they can stay healthy, A LT who is doing a pretty good job in only is 2nd year, Hankerson seems promising, the DL is a lot better then last yr, we actually have a pass rush now, the LB core seems a lot better. Now injuries aside we definitly need quality backups, beef up our DB/CB position, definitly need a FS, and a QB.

It's hard to notice any improvement when most of your starters are injured. The bigger question is why the injuries? everyone trying to do too much? freak accidents? lack of prepardness? because we just can't expect all these injures every year.
SBXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2011, 11:07 PM   #184
Playmaker
 
Slingin Sammy 33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,306
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBXVII View Post
Totally agree with you. But let me aske you then will any talented QB like Luck if the team was able to even reach to get him play well in this system next year or is there more fundamental changes across the board needed?
I think Luck & RG3 would succeed. I haven't done a bunch of checking into the other QBs coming out so I can't give an informed opinion on them. I don't like the KS system, just take a look at his time in HOU vs. what they're doing now offensively, due to a committment to the run game. Keep in mind A. Johnson has been injured this year too. As others have mentioned, KS can draw up route combos etc., but his playcalling, team specific gameplanning, and certainly emphasis on the run are questionable at best.

Quote:
So what has to change if we are in the same position next year at this time? KS fired? MS fired?
Whole staff gone. Bring in SS33 as team president, I'll save Snyder a ton of money and wouldn't do any worse for sure.

Quote:
Listening to the radio today an ex player for Seattle was asked if this is the same system he played against when he played MS's Bronco's and the ex player said no. Basically he said the players are not playing like a MS team, mentioned the OL not blocking well and not seeing much cut blocking that MS likes to use. Which made me wonder..... is the OL coach not coaching like the OL coach did while MS was in Denver? If I recall our OL coach was not doing very well in San Fran either.... he probably was going to get fired.
Exactly right, we aren't running MS's system, KS is in control of the offense, just look at our run/pass numbers. I saw a couple of cuts early in the season and Bowen mentioned that cutting was a big part of the scheme....but I haven't seen much cutting which is a staple of the ZBS. Again this all falls on MS, if the system isn't effective or being run the way he wants, it's his responsibility to "coach up" the coaches or make changes.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.
Slingin Sammy 33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2011, 11:09 PM   #185
Registered User
 
SBXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,766
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMScud View Post
In all fairness Tripp, you weren't apathetic, you were a toddler. I was is in high school at the time. A mess indeed.

EDIT: by "a mess indeed" I meant the Norv era, not me, lol. Although comparatively, Norv looks pretty darn good compared to the last several years.
LOL, how I remember fans calling for Norv's head. He just couldn't get over the hump. Still can't but at this point I'd take a HC that can get my team into the play offs on a regular basis vs. not making the play offs because atleast the team has a winning record. lol. but I do remember hating Norv. and it seemed he called the same damn play over and over.
SBXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2011, 11:09 PM   #186
Pro Bowl
 
SirClintonPortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,052
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
I've gathered from this crowdsourcing exercise that the prevailing opinion on Shanahan is that two years of failure isn't enough evidence to overturn the decision to bring him on as head coach + personnel guy.

I haven't heard anyone defend the Redskins as being on the right track.

So basically this is the coaching equivalent of the minutes during a challenge in the NFL where everyone is pretty certain the call on the field wasn't right, but we have to determine whether or not the visual evidence is indisputable. I propose that indisputable evidence is not necessary to make the best possible decision for the game going forward. I also realize I am the minority opinion on that one.
Yes, it is inconclusive about what the next year of Shanahan is going to be like.
But your analogy does not hold. Look at Oakland in 2009. They were horrible. Bad QB, lack of talent everywhere. But the reputed nut Al Davis pulled that team out of being complete ass the next year. Until we see what happens next season, no one knows.
__________________
Analysis using datasets (aka stats) is an attempt at reverse-engineering a player's "goodness".

Virtuosity remembered, douchebaggery forgotten.

The ideal character profile shoved down modern Western men and women's throats is Don Juan.
SirClintonPortis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2011, 11:12 PM   #187
Registered User
 
SBXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,766
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
All that said, I don't think you let Shanahan go but I could see other coaching moves, including Kyle. What happens now in Houston could have a major impact on our staff next year
Why do you say this? are you refering to coaches that might be available? or players that might be available? I guess your refering to the HC getting canned and MS trying to bring him here? but Houston is doing so well.... aren't they?
SBXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2011, 11:16 PM   #188
Playmaker
 
Slingin Sammy 33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,306
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBXVII View Post
Why do you say this? are you refering to coaches that might be available? or players that might be available? I guess your refering to the HC getting canned and MS trying to bring him here? but Houston is doing so well.... aren't they?
I probably shouldn't speak for SS, but I think he's referring to Houston's success on offense with a committment to the run game being a potential indicment of KS's system/abilities.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.
Slingin Sammy 33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2011, 11:20 PM   #189
Registered User
 
SBXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,766
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Exactly right, we aren't running MS's system, KS is in control of the offense, just look at our run/pass numbers. I saw a couple of cuts early in the season and Bowen mentioned that cutting was a big part of the scheme....but I haven't seen much cutting which is a staple of the ZBS. Again this all falls on MS, if the system isn't effective or being run the way he wants, it's his responsibility to "coach up" the coaches or make changes.
I just don't think MS is doing much coaching period. Which is why we are not seeing the MS offensive staple. He might have wanted some run scheme's thrown into the mix but I'm guessing it's all KS.

I understand there needs to be a commitment to the run but really are the numbers really all that off? I think whats best is 50/50 run/pass but we tend to be around 60/40 pass/run which I don't think is really all that bad either. I think KS's issue with getting away from the run is it doesn't work once and he shifts to passes. Gibbs was run, run, pass, punt, then come back out and do it again because sooner or later the defense will tire out and by the 4th quarter big runs will be available. KS seems to get frustrated when the OL does not block for the run so he turns to the pass.
SBXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2011, 11:31 PM   #190
Living Legend
 
skinsfaninok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oklahoma City (Originally from Biloxi, Ms)
Age: 27
Posts: 16,011
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

I'm not a fan of KS at all in fact I wish he would be gone asap but that's not happening
__________________
THUNDER UP

"if you're good at something, never do it for free"- The Joker

skinsfaninok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2011, 05:25 AM   #191
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBXVII View Post
Why do you say this? are you refering to coaches that might be available? or players that might be available? I guess your refering to the HC getting canned and MS trying to bring him here? but Houston is doing so well.... aren't they?
Well let me preface by saying I'm not a huge Schaub fan, but if the Texans now falter with him out and miss the playoffs then Kubiak and co are likely gone. So yeah you're going to have coaches available that could shake up this staff. Not least of which is Rick Dennison.
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2011, 06:32 AM   #192
Registered User
 
SBXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,766
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

So I guess we should hope for the Texans to start losing in order to get some position coaches here replaced. Lol.

My main concern is OL coach and MS getting the right coach in for his system. I really wish their old OL coach From Denver who went to the Texans could be healthy and work out their differences and be brought in.
SBXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2011, 06:43 AM   #193
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,484
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBXVII View Post
So I guess we should hope for the Texans to start losing in order to get some position coaches here replaced. Lol.

My main concern is OL coach and MS getting the right coach in for his system. I really wish their old OL coach From Denver who went to the Texans could be healthy and work out their differences and be brought in.
I think you're thinking of Alex Gibbs, but in the early 2000s Rick Dennison was the OL coach under Mike Shanahan in Denver.
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2011, 07:53 AM   #194
The Starter
 
44Deezel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Davidsonville
Posts: 1,605
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBXVII View Post
I don't know what to say....

It's blatently obvious DS won't be able to please all fans at all times. But I was pretty sure most fans after the Zorn failure pretty much wanted a proven HC (and MS is) and wanted "consistancy". Simply throwing everything away yet again after 2yrs (this offseason) or after 3yrs is not, I would guess to be, "consistancy." We need to keep a coaching staff longer then 2-3 yrs, allow them to get the types of players for their system on the team, and keep a QB in the same scheme longer then 2 yrs. Why is P.Manning, E.Manning, Breese, Brady, etc. etc. so succesfull? because they stayed in the same system for more then 2 yrs.
Brady won the Super Bowl in his first year as a starter, and Brees was awesome in his first year in New Orleans. Those guys are so successful, because they're really good.

But the Giants were smart for sticking with Coughlin through some tough years (he can thank the Skins for that). It paid off with a Super Bowl. We should ride it out and let this staff play out their contract.
44Deezel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2011, 08:15 AM   #195
Pro Bowl
 
Beemnseven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 40
Posts: 5,293
Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
This is a textbook exercise in excuse making.

When the Lions were 2-10 last year, I don't think a whole lot of people thought that the Lions weren't on the right track. I think Schwartz was starting to get some heat for short term results, but people knew the team was better and they knew that even with the QB out, the Lions were still making positive strides week to week.

I don't know if the Lions are going to make the playoffs in year three, but they already have results. Mike Shanahan has accomplished nothing here in a year and a half. And the idea that Detroit was in better shape three years ago than the Redskins were two years ago is just not accurate.

I think most NFL coaches would be doing a better job here. When you consider just how far the Redskins have fallen short of expectations, I think that's pretty difficult to argue against.
And you cannot deny that Schwartz has had more to work with in the form of a top-five, elite WR who was in place before he got there -- Shanahan didn't. Schwartz has more drafts and more high draft picks -- Shanahan hasn't. Schwartz has had three years to re-build his team -- Shanahan has had one and a half years. It's a complete fallacy to say that Shanahan has had the same tools and the same time that Jim Schwartz has had to rebuild their respective teams.

It is not difficult in the least to make the case that Detroit was on the right track with an emphasis on the draft, a competent general manager who manuevered to get high selections in the drafts to give Jim Schwartz a chance. Shanahan inherited a team that was built with aging, expensive free agents or outright castoffs that other teams had set out on the street corner.

You call it excuse-making, I call it laying out the facts.
Beemnseven is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.33644 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25