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Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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Old 11-14-2011, 12:37 PM   #76
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I disagree...but this is the smackdown thread and you're entitled to your opinion.

but honestly just in the time that this site has been up and I have been here for quit awhile, have we seen a new coach come in and nothing changes. I hope it does but history tells me not to hold my breath.

And let me add I was not looking for a Super Bowl run or a playoff run this year, I would have just like to seen us won more games than last year, doesn't look like at it at this point.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:39 PM   #77
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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There were more but I'll continue to and go with the secondary.

More specifically D Hall... so tired of this guy, would love to trade him but we wouldn't get squat. Wouldn't mind if they released him at this point.
Crazy Canuck:

You are not beating a dead horse. Hall is among the highest paid players on the roster and he is an ordinary performer on the field.

The myth is that he is a "shut down corner". If that is the case, how come offensive coordinators with QBs of the quality of Matt Moore target his side of the field at least as often as they do the other side of the field.

The only facet of the game in which Hall excels is running his mouth. In Texas, they call him "all hat and no cattle".
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:43 PM   #78
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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Originally Posted by GMScud View Post
I agree with your disagreement. We have a bevy of young draft picks in the fold, and another chunk of picks upcoming in this years draft. We're in good shape with the salary cap, and we don't have a lot of money tied up in older players right now. We're getting younger.

However, I'm beginning to lean towards Mike Shanahan not really being too much of a positive right now. Hiring Kyle is looking like a mistake, and he's totally wet the bed at the QB position. But I do think there is reason for optimism in the coming seasons IF IF IF we land a blue-chip QB.

Yep i agree with this but i also agree with mredskins a bit too. Personal wise i think we are a lot better then we were before Mike got here. However coaching wise we seem just as bad, maybe worse. Defense seems at best equal and offense seems just as bad maybe worse.

I think our offensive coaching is just as bad as it was under Zorn. Mike is susposed to be a quality controll head coach. If Kyle's play calling sucks step in and take over, thats where he is susposed to add value. Dont get me wrong Zorn sucked and was in way over his head, but im not sure if i can say he was worse then Kyle.

All that said i do see the light at the end of the tunel, i just cant tell how far it is.

Kyle gets my smackdown. Althogh i dont think we could/should have run on 3rd and 2 in the redzone as i belive that a zone blocking running game only works when you have a lot of field in front of you on short yarage situtations. BUT to have the QB drop back 5 steps was just retarded.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:49 PM   #79
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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Yep i agree with this but i also agree with mredskins a bit too. Personal wise i think we are a lot better then we were before Mike got here. However coaching wise we seem just as bad, maybe worse. Defense seems at best equal and offense seems just as bad maybe worse.

I think our offensive coaching is just as bad as it was under Zorn. Mike is susposed to be a quality controll head coach. If Kyle's play calling sucks step in and take over, thats where he is susposed to add value. Dont get me wrong Zorn sucked and was in way over his head, but im not sure if i can say he was worse then Kyle.

All that said i do see the light at the end of the tunel, i just cant tell how far it is.

Kyle gets my smackdown. Althogh i dont think we could/should have run on 3rd and 2 in the redzone as i belive that a zone blocking running game only works when you have a lot of field in front of you on short yarage situtations. BUT to have the QB drop back 5 steps was just retarded.
Zorn's record through his first year and a half is right there with Shanny's in the same time frame. I know Vinny is not here calling the personnel shots, so that's a huge upgrade, but win's and losses, thus far, Zorn = Shanahan.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:50 PM   #80
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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As a enormous Redskins fan, I'm just shocked as hell to find out that Mike Shanahan, two time Super Bowl winning head coach, doesn't know QBs. He coached Joe Montana, Steve Young, John Elway, Jake Plummer, and Jay Cutler. As a offensive coordinator and head coach, he won with those QBs, right?

Now let's fast forward to Mike Shanahan's tenure as head coach of the Washington Redskins. He cuts Todd Collins, doesn't re-sign Jason Campbell, trades a 2nd and 4th round pick for Donovan McNabb, trades for John Beck, signs Rex Grossman, and then trades McNabb. Then the worst of all decisions that he could possibly make results in him not drafting a QB in the 2011 draft, and not signing Matt Hasselback or another veteran QB that has played in the west coast offense after the NFL lockout was finished. That's eight TERRIBLE decisions that Mike Shanahan has made right there that's resulted in nothing but mediocrity at the quarterback position.

SHANAHAN HAS GOTTEN IT HORRIBLY WRONG WITH ALL OF THE DECISIONS THAT HE'S MADE PERTAINING TO THE QB POSITION SINCE HE'S BEEN THE HEAD COACH OF THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS!!!!!!!!!!

Let's review the bidding here:

Joe Montana had been a QB in the NFL of no small accomplishment for a decade before he met Mike Shanahan.

Steve Young had been in the USFL and the NFL for more than 5 years before he met Mike Shanahan.

John Elway had been in the NFL for more than a decade - - and had gone to the Super Bowl with only average talent around him - - before he met Mike Shanahan.

Jake Plummer improved under Shanahan's tutelage AND THEN he retired from football completely saying that playing QB for Shanahan was a nightmare because Shanahan demanded perfection. Rather than take millions of dollars to finish out his contract, Plummer retired because Shanahan drove him nuts.

Jay Cutler played just well enough in Denver under Shanahan to miss the playoffs a few years and get Shahanan fired.



The question is this:
Did he win "with" those QBs or did he win "because he had" those QBs?
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:51 PM   #81
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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I agree with your disagreement. We have a bevy of young draft picks in the fold, and another chunk of picks upcoming in this years draft. We're in good shape with the salary cap, and we don't have a lot of money tied up in older players right now. We're getting younger.

However, I'm beginning to lean towards Mike Shanahan not really being too much of a positive right now. Hiring Kyle is looking like a mistake, and he's totally wet the bed at the QB position. But I do think there is reason for optimism in the coming seasons IF IF IF we land a blue-chip QB.
I don't think there's a coaching staff out there who would look good with this roster. There are legitimate criticisms: Whiffing on McNabb, thinking that Beck or Grossman had a chance to be effective... but even then you have to ask what the options were. Kevin Kolb? Throwing every draft pick you have at the Bengals for Carson Palmer? I just don't know.

I still maintain that what we're seeing now is a natural progression for a franchise in the state that it's in. A 3-13/4-12 type season was bound to happen after 12 years of incompetence and dysfunction. There isn't a collection of front office or coaching professionals that I know of who would have fared any better at this point.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:54 PM   #82
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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I don't think there's a coaching staff out there who would look good with this roster. There are legitimate criticisms: Whiffing on McNabb, thinking that Beck or Grossman had a chance to be effective... but even then you have to ask what the options were. Kevin Kolb? Throwing every draft pick you have at the Bengals for Carson Palmer? I just don't know.

I still maintain that what we're seeing now is a natural progression for a franchise in the state that it's in. A 3-13/4-12 type season was bound to happen after 12 years of incompetence and dysfunction. There isn't a collection of front office or coaching professionals that I know of who would have fared any better at this point.
But we were a 6 win team last year with even less of Mike's personnel moves on the team. It's a clear regression. We have the worst offense in the national football league.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:54 PM   #83
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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Zorn's record through his first year and a half is right there with Shanny's in the same time frame. I know Vinny is not here calling the personnel shots, so that's a huge upgrade, but win's and losses, thus far, Zorn = Shanahan.
Which is very sad.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:59 PM   #84
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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I agree with your disagreement. We have a bevy of young draft picks in the fold, and another chunk of picks upcoming in this years draft. We're in good shape with the salary cap, and we don't have a lot of money tied up in older players right now. We're getting younger.

However, I'm beginning to lean towards Mike Shanahan not really being too much of a positive right now. Hiring Kyle is looking like a mistake, and he's totally wet the bed at the QB position. But I do think there is reason for optimism in the coming seasons IF IF IF we land a blue-chip QB.

Kyle's brain is still in Houston and his playcalling still reflects that at times.

But at the same time, one aspect of the Redskins offense is difficult to pin on him, at least imo. That aspect is the red zone offense. Most of our redzone scores have either been passes or 1 yard TD runs. A lack of a big possession receiver like Colston or Burress and an Oline that doesn't emphasize pure strength is going to result in that under most coordinators, imo.
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:00 PM   #85
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

On Matt Hasselbeck -- would the results be any different? He still would have sub-par protection from the O-line, no running game, and absolutely zilch from the receivers.

Substitute any QB you want; Carson Palmer, Kevin Kolb, Matt Moore, ... Then you ask yourself if any of these guys are the QB of the future for this team? If anybody else were remotely more effective, wouldn't that just mask the true state of this team?
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:06 PM   #86
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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But we were a 6 win team last year with even less of Mike's personnel moves on the team. It's a clear regression. We have the worst offense in the national football league.
I would say last year's team didn't have as many young, inexperienced players as it has now. There's been way more re-shuffling of the O-line this year, no Santana Moss, no Chris Cooley, Trent Williams was out for three games...
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:09 PM   #87
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

With regard to the Skins' radio team:

Larry Michael is a competent broadcaster and it is OK for the local radio guy to be a homer. That is why I will gladly give him a pass for his game day broadcasts. However, his daily performance on "Redskins Nation" or whatever that daily TV abomination is called is beneath contempt. My cat could provide an equal amount of insight and the only sound my cat makes is "Meow!"

Sam Huff was never a great radio commentator. Those who think he was great in the 80s are remembering how great it was to listen to the accounts of those games when the Skins were winning about 75% - 80% of the time. He was never insightful. Nowadays, when you listen you just hope that he does not implode on the air and start talking about something having nothing to do with football in no known language.

Sonny Jurgensen is still very good on the radio. His "homerism" is tempered by the fact that what he sees on the field is embarrassing and he cannot hide his embarrassment for a full three hours. Listen to him as the offense comes to the line. He will mutter in the background - - as Larry Michael is saying that there is trips right or something like that - - "This play is going left." or "There is a lot of room down the middle." And you know what, he is right about 90% of the time. He sees what is going to happen before it happens. That is why he is worth listening to...

Doc Walker is a one-trick pony. The world is made up of "ballers" and "other people". When someone puts on a Redskins jersey, that person immediately becomes a "baller". Some folks here must love him because as soon as the Redskins sign some guy off the street who was moving pianos for a living for the last 9 months, that guy instantly becomes a "stud". Doc's sideline insights are no better than the sideline insights from every other useless sideline reporter on radio or TV.

Joe Theismann is a motor-mouth and a know-it-all. Like Sam Huff, if the Skins are winning 80% of their games, you can listen to his non-stop chatter. If the Skins are losing 80% of their games, listening to him is like getting a root canal without novicaine.
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:10 PM   #88
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

I think the notion that Mike isn't involved at all in the offense is flawed. He is very involved, but it's Kyle's offense to run. And it will run just fine with a competent and consistent QB. Beck is neither, Grossman is just one of the two.

Selecting a QB (at least one) is of utmost importance. Doesn't necessarily mean a first rounder. They could go the Bengals 2011 draft route.
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:10 PM   #89
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

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Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
Let's review the bidding here:

Jake Plummer improved under Shanahan's tutelage AND THEN he retired from football completely saying that playing QB for Shanahan was a nightmare because Shanahan demanded perfection. Rather than take millions of dollars to finish out his contract, Plummer retired because Shanahan drove him nuts.


The question is this:
Did he win "with" those QBs or did he win "because he had" those QBs?
I thought Jake retired because he was traded to TB since Gruden can never have enough QBs. I remember Plummer being good but he was one of those guys that would throw a bunch of interceptions every now and then. Once Cutler got drafted Plummer's time in Devner was over, as Mike was keeping Cutler on the sidelines until he was ready.

I will say with regards to your question, i agree with you in that he won with those QBs. But the situation here is entirely different and not just because we dont have a decent QB; this isnt Mikes offense, its Kyles. So if we win it will be with Mike but because of Kyle and whoever the QB is, just like we are losing now with Mike because of Kyle and Grossman and Beck. Although the longer Mike stands on the sidelines and doesnt intervene our losing is becoming "because of Mike".
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:15 PM   #90
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

More smack needs to go to MS and KS. Do either of these clowns know how to have the team run a hurry up offense? I just don't get it. Really starting to lose all faith in MS.
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