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Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

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Old 11-20-2011, 09:01 PM   #1
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Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

OK, look. Yes today's outcome was extremely frustrating... but as some have pointed out... there have been some positives during this terrible 6-game stretch. The biggest of all is that our 2011 Draft is looking like one the team's All-Time Best.

For weeks now, we have been talking about Kerrigan and Helu doing good/great things for the team.

In preseason everyone saw the huge potential in Jarvis Jenkins.

Then Hankerson came on and showed some great potential as well.

Neild had a great 1st game vs Giants, then was quiet for a stretch, then looked good again today (his grade is on a curve too, considering he was one of the last picks in the last round).

Then today, who would argue that DeJon Gomes didn't look tons better than Doughty back there at safety? He ended up with 13 tackles today!

So after 11 weeks, here's the grades by pick/round:

1) Kerrigan - Definite A+
2) Jenkins - I (Incomplete, but looks very good for next year)
3) Hankerson - A (For a 3rd Round pick, he's going to be fine)
4) Helu - A (I think he's going to be a Skin for a while to come)
5) Gomes - B (One game is a small sample set, but hey, pretty good sample)
5) Paul - C+ (I'd grade him higher, but he's not been used as actual WR, just a decoy/run blocker... but hey, been good at that role)
6) Royster - D- (Giving a D because with injuries, etc. he still hasn't shown enough to get a shot before a guy like Choice)
6) A. Robinson - F (May/Probably never play a single snap for the Skins)
7) Thompson - C (Has played sparingly... looked like a 7th round rookie CB... jury is out on him)
7) Hurt - C+/B- (Hey, he didn't stick out like a sore thumb when in there... again, played like a 7th round rookie... needs time)
7) M. White - I (Incomplete, I kinda liked what I saw out of him the preseason... needs time)
7 Neild - A (For a 253rd overall pick, can collapse the pocket like a 53rd pick)

Agree? Disagree?
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:04 PM   #2
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins View Post
OK, look. Yes today's outcome was extremely frustrating... but as some have pointed out... there have been some positives during this terrible 6-game stretch. The biggest of all is that our 2011 Draft is looking like one the team's All-Time Best.

For weeks now, we have been talking about Kerrigan and Helu doing good/great things for the team.

In preseason everyone saw the huge potential in Jarvis Jenkins.

Then Hankerson came on and showed some great potential as well.

Neild had a great 1st game vs Giants, then was quiet for a stretch, then looked good again today (his grade is on a curve too, considering he was one of the last picks in the last round).

Then today, who would argue that DeJon Gomes didn't look tons better than Doughty back there at safety? He ended up with 13 tackles today!

So after 11 weeks, here's the grades by pick/round:

1) Kerrigan - Definite A+
2) Jenkins - I (Incomplete, but looks very good for next year)
3) Hankerson - A (For a 3rd Round pick, he's going to be fine)
4) Helu - A (I think he's going to be a Skin for a while to come)
5) Gomes - B (One game is a small sample set, but hey, pretty good sample)
5) Paul - C+ (I'd grade him higher, but he's not been used as actual WR, just a decoy/run blocker... but hey, been good at that role)
6) Royster - D- (Giving a D because with injuries, etc. he still hasn't shown enough to get a shot before a guy like Choice)
6) A. Robinson - F (May/Probably never play a single snap for the Skins)
7) Thompson - C (Has played sparingly... looked like a 7th round rookie CB... jury is out on him)
7) Hurt - C+/B- (Hey, he didn't stick out like a sore thumb when in there... again, played like a 7th round rookie... needs time)
7) M. White - I (Incomplete, I kinda liked what I saw out of him the preseason... needs time)
7 Neild - A (For a 253rd overall pick, can collapse the pocket like a 53rd pick)

Agree? Disagree?


I can't agree with Hank on down simply because of not enough time.. Neild looks like a ROBBERY and of course 91 is a star in the making.. I'd say a overall B-

Helu shows flashes but he hasn't really had a good game outside of the crazy 14 Rec game
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:08 PM   #3
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

Way to early, I say you gotta give at least 3 years to give grades, but overall not bad.

Its very troublesome that season ending injuries to 2nd and 3rd round picks, could substantially stunt their growth. We will see how dedicated they are, long rehabs along with continuing to learn the systems isn't easy. How Jenkins and Hankerson respond will be a story to follow.
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:12 PM   #4
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

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Originally Posted by skinsfaninok View Post
I can't agree with Hank on down simply because of not enough time.. Neild looks like a ROBBERY and of course 91 is a star in the making.. I'd say a overall B-

Helu shows flashes but he hasn't really had a good game outside of the crazy 14 Rec game
It's cool to have difference in opinion...

I just want to point out that each guy is graded based on the round he was picked. You can't count on 4th rounders on down to actually contribute as rookies, or being future major contributers/starters and many of ours have shown they can, do, and will.

Helu is a 4th round pick... has definitely contributed plenty for a 4th round pick.
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Old 11-20-2011, 11:44 PM   #5
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

You're right -- the performance of Jenkins and Hankerson in the next couple years will determine how good our draft was -- anywhere from a B- to an A+.

Looking at the standings, we may be shaping up for a top 3 overall pick if STL CAR and MIN can win a few games coming up...
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Old 11-20-2011, 11:49 PM   #6
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

Oh yeah I agree Hail, no doubt it was a good overall draft I just hope we continue that path
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Old 11-20-2011, 11:58 PM   #7
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins View Post
OK, look. Yes today's outcome was extremely frustrating... but as some have pointed out... there have been some positives during this terrible 6-game stretch. The biggest of all is that our 2011 Draft is looking like one the team's All-Time Best.

For weeks now, we have been talking about Kerrigan and Helu doing good/great things for the team.

In preseason everyone saw the huge potential in Jarvis Jenkins.

Then Hankerson came on and showed some great potential as well.

Neild had a great 1st game vs Giants, then was quiet for a stretch, then looked good again today (his grade is on a curve too, considering he was one of the last picks in the last round).

Then today, who would argue that DeJon Gomes didn't look tons better than Doughty back there at safety? He ended up with 13 tackles today!

So after 11 weeks, here's the grades by pick/round:

1) Kerrigan - Definite A+
2) Jenkins - I (Incomplete, but looks very good for next year)
3) Hankerson - A (For a 3rd Round pick, he's going to be fine)
4) Helu - A (I think he's going to be a Skin for a while to come)
5) Gomes - B (One game is a small sample set, but hey, pretty good sample)
5) Paul - C+ (I'd grade him higher, but he's not been used as actual WR, just a decoy/run blocker... but hey, been good at that role)
6) Royster - D- (Giving a D because with injuries, etc. he still hasn't shown enough to get a shot before a guy like Choice)
6) A. Robinson - F (May/Probably never play a single snap for the Skins)
7) Thompson - C (Has played sparingly... looked like a 7th round rookie CB... jury is out on him)
7) Hurt - C+/B- (Hey, he didn't stick out like a sore thumb when in there... again, played like a 7th round rookie... needs time)
7) M. White - I (Incomplete, I kinda liked what I saw out of him the preseason... needs time)
7 Neild - A (For a 253rd overall pick, can collapse the pocket like a 53rd pick)

Agree? Disagree?
Still too early to tell cause of the injuries to Jenkins and Hank. But I like what I'm seeing. We need two more drafts like this one.
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:08 AM   #8
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

The Redskins had an excellent 2011 draft. It looks like Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan missed on some players, but they hit on most of them. Kerrigan, Gomes, Helu, Hankerson, Neild, and Jarvis Jenkins will be impact players in the near future. Hurt has played fine since being inserted in the starting lineup. Royster needs more time. He has at least until next preseason to get his act together. Thompson has potential. He played well in preseason. He just needs more time to take his game to the next level. I like Niles Paul. I wish he was involved more in the passing game. He's great on special teams.

And white. He hasn't shown me much.
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:22 AM   #9
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

I want to know why the hell Helu hasn't started a full game BY HIMSELF? It doesn't even make sense lol.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:08 AM   #10
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

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Originally Posted by skinsfaninok View Post
I can't agree with Hank on down simply because of not enough time.. Neild looks like a ROBBERY and of course 91 is a star in the making.. I'd say a overall B-

1) Kerrigan - Definite A+
2) Jenkins - I (Incomplete, but looks very good for next year)
3) Hankerson - A (For a 3rd Round pick, he's going to be fine)
4) Helu - A (I think he's going to be a Skin for a while to come)
5) Gomes - B (One game is a small sample set, but hey, pretty good sample)
5) Paul - C+ (I'd grade him higher, but he's not been used as actual WR, just a decoy/run blocker... but hey, been good at that role)
6) Royster - D- (Giving a D because with injuries, etc. he still hasn't shown enough to get a shot before a guy like Choice)
6) A. Robinson - F (May/Probably never play a single snap for the Skins)
7) Thompson - C (Has played sparingly... looked like a 7th round rookie CB... jury is out on him)
7) Hurt - C+/B- (Hey, he didn't stick out like a sore thumb when in there... again, played like a 7th round rookie... needs time)
7) M. White - I (Incomplete, I kinda liked what I saw out of him the preseason... needs time)
7 Neild - A (For a 253rd overall pick, can collapse the pocket like a 53rd pick)

Helu shows flashes but he hasn't really had a good game outside of the crazy 14 Rec game
For me it looks more like this. Also keep in mind I've missed the last two games so I'm not as up to date as others are.

1. Kerrigan - A+ so far, trending upwards.
2. Jenkins - I for Incomplete, was trending upwards before injury but we don't know if will be same player after injury. Odds are for it but can't assume anything at this point.
3. Hankerson - I for Incomplete, was improving game to game before injury but again, sample size is too small.
4. Helu - trending upwards, looks good so far.
5. Gomes - I for Incomplete, didn't see today's game but either way can't judge a player off one game in this league.
5. Paul - stock not trending upwards or downwards. I for Incomplete, although he is making a notch as a run blocker.
6. Royster - I for Incomplete, looks like PS player so far.
6. Robinson - stock is low due to being on PS, and the fact that the two wideouts taken ahead of him have looked more impressive so far.
7. Thompson - I for Incomplete, has looked like average rookie corner so far.
7. Hurt - I for Incomplete, not large enough sample size.
7. White - I for Incomplete, has seen no pt thus far.
7. Nield - stock trending upwards due to making active roster and actually making more of an impact than we thought he would so far.
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:58 PM   #11
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins View Post
OK, look. Yes today's outcome was extremely frustrating... but as some have pointed out... there have been some positives during this terrible 6-game stretch. The biggest of all is that our 2011 Draft is looking like one the team's All-Time Best.

For weeks now, we have been talking about Kerrigan and Helu doing good/great things for the team.

In preseason everyone saw the huge potential in Jarvis Jenkins.

Then Hankerson came on and showed some great potential as well.

Neild had a great 1st game vs Giants, then was quiet for a stretch, then looked good again today (his grade is on a curve too, considering he was one of the last picks in the last round).

Then today, who would argue that DeJon Gomes didn't look tons better than Doughty back there at safety? He ended up with 13 tackles today!

So after 11 weeks, here's the grades by pick/round:

1) Kerrigan - Definite A+
2) Jenkins - I (Incomplete, but looks very good for next year)
3) Hankerson - A (For a 3rd Round pick, he's going to be fine)
4) Helu - A (I think he's going to be a Skin for a while to come)
5) Gomes - B (One game is a small sample set, but hey, pretty good sample)
5) Paul - C+ (I'd grade him higher, but he's not been used as actual WR, just a decoy/run blocker... but hey, been good at that role)
6) Royster - D- (Giving a D because with injuries, etc. he still hasn't shown enough to get a shot before a guy like Choice)
6) A. Robinson - F (May/Probably never play a single snap for the Skins)
7) Thompson - C (Has played sparingly... looked like a 7th round rookie CB... jury is out on him)
7) Hurt - C+/B- (Hey, he didn't stick out like a sore thumb when in there... again, played like a 7th round rookie... needs time)
7) M. White - I (Incomplete, I kinda liked what I saw out of him the preseason... needs time)
7 Neild - A (For a 253rd overall pick, can collapse the pocket like a 53rd pick)

Agree? Disagree?

You can declare the 2011 Draft a Success - - or a Bust - - at the end of 2013 because by then you will have been able to see on-field performance from the guys on the list who are actually good enough to see the field on Sundays. Until then, giving the 2011 Draft a grade is just an exercise in fluffery.

For example, Hankerson played one - - as in ONE - - very good game. For that he gets the grade "A"? Go and Google the career of Clint Longley. He too had one fantastic game - - actually it was a fantastic half of a game to be more precise - - and then he did what...

Jenkins, Royster, Robinson and a couple others have yet to show anything against "real NFL opposition" as opposed to exhibition game opposition where many players are on the field just to prevent the real players from sustaining injuries. How they looked against that competition is not important. Go and Google the career of Babe Laufenberg...

The Redskins drafted one player who has consistently shown in the first 10 games of his career that he can become an excellent player. That is Ryan Kerrigan. No one else.

The Redskins drafted one player, Roy Helu, who has shown some strengths and some weaknesses when he has been given the opportunity to play. My guess is that he can be a good "other running back" for an NFL team but that he will never be a featured back who gets 25-30 touches a game for an entire season. Remember, that is a guess based only on seeing him play sparingly over 10 games.

Judging the abilities and the weaknesses of the rest of the list based on actual performance now is like judging the Miss America contest. If you just sit back and watch with a smile on your face, they all look great...
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:20 PM   #12
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

debbie downer here. kerrigan has played well, made some game changing plays but id have to see him keep contributing and making plays for the next few years.

id like to see him develop and be better in coverage and picking up guys running off the line. i guess im trying to say kerrigan needs to show me more of his game otherwise he might just be another version of orakpo, which is great having guys that can rush the passer . . but until kerrigan does more than rush the passer or show he can continue to get to the passer after a few seasons and with teams taking him into account in the slide/protection schemes.

like horton or orakpo, i want to wait and see before i king him for future accolades he hasnt achieved yet.

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Old 11-21-2011, 01:37 PM   #13
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

The fact that nearly every single one of the 2011 draft picks are on the squad or PS, I would say it is indicative of one of two things.

1) Our coaching/FO know how to draft.


2) The talent level on the team was really worse than we thought.




My guess is #2. I think fans have overvalued the players talent on this team(as noted by the grades you've given), but the results have constantly proved different.

That said, I do think Shanny is good at drafting. Somebody over on ES did a comparison between Shanny and Bellicheat over the years in terms of drafting and sure enough Shanny came out on top in regards to the quality he's drafted.

The draft is a crap shoot, and scouts and talent evaluators are crucial in helping out those chances of not landing a bust. That and gaining as many as draft picks to help you gain more chances. It's like playing the lottery, the more chances you have, the bigger your percentage rises on winning it. I recall some scout saying if you landed 50% of your draft choices, you are a world class GM/coach.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:39 PM   #14
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins View Post
OK, look. Yes today's outcome was extremely frustrating... but as some have pointed out... there have been some positives during this terrible 6-game stretch. The biggest of all is that our 2011 Draft is looking like one the team's All-Time Best.

For weeks now, we have been talking about Kerrigan and Helu doing good/great things for the team.

In preseason everyone saw the huge potential in Jarvis Jenkins.

Then Hankerson came on and showed some great potential as well.

Neild had a great 1st game vs Giants, then was quiet for a stretch, then looked good again today (his grade is on a curve too, considering he was one of the last picks in the last round).

Then today, who would argue that DeJon Gomes didn't look tons better than Doughty back there at safety? He ended up with 13 tackles today!

So after 11 weeks, here's the grades by pick/round:

1) Kerrigan - Definite A+
2) Jenkins - I (Incomplete, but looks very good for next year)
3) Hankerson - A (For a 3rd Round pick, he's going to be fine)
4) Helu - A (I think he's going to be a Skin for a while to come)
5) Gomes - B (One game is a small sample set, but hey, pretty good sample)
5) Paul - C+ (I'd grade him higher, but he's not been used as actual WR, just a decoy/run blocker... but hey, been good at that role)
6) Royster - D- (Giving a D because with injuries, etc. he still hasn't shown enough to get a shot before a guy like Choice)
6) A. Robinson - F (May/Probably never play a single snap for the Skins)
7) Thompson - C (Has played sparingly... looked like a 7th round rookie CB... jury is out on him)
7) Hurt - C+/B- (Hey, he didn't stick out like a sore thumb when in there... again, played like a 7th round rookie... needs time)
7) M. White - I (Incomplete, I kinda liked what I saw out of him the preseason... needs time)
7 Neild - A (For a 253rd overall pick, can collapse the pocket like a 53rd pick)

Agree? Disagree?
Damn man, where were you when I was in school. I wish you were grading my work!!

I'd give Kerrigan a B+. He's made some great plays and there's lots to be excited about but he hasn't revolutionized the position or changed the way offenses attack us.

Hankerson took 9 weeks to get active and he gets an A? He's a C and only the Miami game is preventing him from being a D+. Let's be real, he had an "A" game but let's see him do it over at least half of a season before crowning him, ok?

Helu gets a B-. He's shown some things but the ability to break tackles isn't one of them. Once we get a true starter, it will be nice to see him settle into a role that suits him.

Gomes, C-. He's been active for every game but didn't make any impact until Sunday. Again, let's see more.

Paul, I agree with you on.

Royster, Robinson, Thompson, White all get F's but they had low expectations so how about an F+.

Hurt gets a C for playing above his draft slot and not completely embarassing himself. He could turn out to be a decent depth player.

Neild gets a B from me. He consistently plays and has made impact plays in division games. Well done and is playing far above his draft slot.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:48 PM   #15
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Re: Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

OK, one thing I have learned over the years...

A) Putting down some one else's opinions doesn't automatically make you the smarter, wiser, or more intelligent person.

B) It's always best to actually READ everything that is written in someone's post before declaring someone is "right" or "wrong" with their OPINION.

... In the original post, I was talking about my impression of ROOKIE PERFORMANCE EXPECTATIONS BASED ON DRAFT POSITION... i.e. based on a CURVE as I was basing it on where we are right now, seeing as how it isn't 2013.

Grading Kerrigan an A+ pick does not mean that he is an A+ LB and is offically better than Sigletary, Urlacher & Ray Lewis combined. It means that he is performing as good as I could have possibly guessed through 10 games playing a new position as a rookie.

90% of my opinion is what I have seen with my own eyes, not stats...

Jenkins, Hankerson, Paul have been praised on numerous occasions by teammates & coaches about their performance in practice, and I've seen things that show they know what the hell they are doing already in certain key areas, FOR A ROOKIE.

As for "stats," DeJon Gomes and his "one game." Mr. "Google Babe Laufenburg" how about you tell me how many 5TH ROUND safeties have made 13 tackles in their first career start as a rookie? Also notice that I didn't give him an "A" and I DID MENTION that it was just one game... but that he already looked better than Reed Doughty (IMO).

And Hankerson... 2 starts, 12 catches for 140 yards and a 2-point conversion where he looked VERY comfortable working the CB off to open space for the back shoulder catch. After watching D. Thomas and M. Kelly, how can you say that he has shown already to be a MUCH better value than either, having picked him in the 3RD ROUND.

As for Helu... If you can't see the difference between how he finds and hits holes compared to Hightower, Torain, Choice, etc. then that's where we really differ. As far as his stats.... Over the past 6 games, Torain has 51 yards on 36 carries, Helu is something around 120 yards on 24 carries... behind the same line.

You don't think you need to see stats to see talent.

Again, let me make the original post clear... the grades aren't player grades as compared to everyone in the NFL. It's based on what I've seen vs what the expectations were for that player based on their draft position.

Why don't you just share YOUR opinion instead of trying to trash someone else's (like others have done in this thread)? It's like those parents that sit in the stands, talk about how their vast experience playing a sport (in rec or high school), coaching their 10 year-old and trashing everything a coach does just so it makes them seem like the supreme guru... makes me shake my head.

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Last edited by Hail to the Redskins; 11-21-2011 at 05:54 PM.
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