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Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

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Old 11-22-2011, 12:03 PM   #46
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

I'm cautiously optimistic about the future. The QB(s) selected next year will largely make or break Shanny's tenure. I am absolutely sold thus far on the mgmt. of Allen & Shanny. Change must start at the top & they established a new direction early on & have continued to follow through w/prudent decisions. Only blemish to me is McNabb.

We aren't having a good time these days, but I still think this transition could've been much uglier. We look at this roster & how limited it is now, but think about all the youth that's been brought in the last 2 years. We were heading towards rebuilding regardless of who took over after Zorn.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:06 PM   #47
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

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Originally Posted by htownskinfan View Post
couldnt agree more with everything said in this post except maybe that he's lost the team,I think thats very hard to determine unless your inside that locker room.Everything else you said is spot on.I know your sposed to let coaches have a 5 year plan but im ready to move on,Im afraid what moves this regime will make next to set us back another couple yrs in the QB situation because it is OBVIOUS they dont know how to judge qbs
You're right on the locker room htown I have no idea what it's like.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:17 PM   #48
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

I'm not in the locker room, but have talked to people who have talked to people that are. And the locker room is not at all lost. It's probably not quite at the "we'll do anything for anyone" days of Gibbs but it's not lost.

I did underestimate though how strongly the players feel about Rex vs. Beck. I thought it was just talk supporting the starting QB at the time (Grossman), but no the actual respect for Beck the QB is (deservedly, in my opinion) quite low inside the locker room
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:30 PM   #49
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

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I'm not in the locker room, but have talked to people who have talked to people that are. And the locker room is not at all lost. It's probably not quite at the "we'll do anything for anyone" days of Gibbs but it's not lost.

I did underestimate though how strongly the players feel about Rex vs. Beck. I thought it was just talk supporting the starting QB at the time (Grossman), but no the actual respect for Beck the QB is (deservedly, in my opinion) quite low inside the locker room
See that's where I get confused. Until the 2nd half of the '07 season (after Sean died) I don't remember Gibbs offense or s teams playing much inspired football. The defense mostly did but I thought it was Williams leadership? I think Gibbs could have taken the team to a new level in '08 but that's just me.

...could be wrong but my impression is the has-been coaches usually don't thrive in the game today. The extent to which Mike has regressed as a game-manager, talent evaluator, motivator and head-coach is unparalleled and nothing like Joe's 2nd tenure. I think if Joe had a better FO situation (aka no Vinny and lil Danny muddling around but a real GM) he could have made the franchise a contender.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:40 PM   #50
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

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See that's where I get confused. Until the 2nd half of the '07 season (after Sean died) I don't remember Gibbs offense or s teams playing much inspired football. The defense mostly did but I thought it was Williams leadership? I think Gibbs could have taken the team to a new level in '08 but that's just me.

...could be wrong but my impression is the has-been coaches usually don't thrive in the game today. The extent to which Mike has regressed as a game-manager, talent evaluator, motivator and head-coach is unparalleled and nothing like Joe's 2nd tenure. I think if Joe had a better FO situation (aka no Vinny and lil Danny muddling around but a real GM) he could have made the franchise a contender.
Quality of the players just might have something to do with it. Football is not played solely with the mind. Some guys that are not as physically gifted may look uninspired when they're actually playing their guts out. Maybe, just maybe Todd Collins knew how to QB better than Jason Campbell.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:04 PM   #51
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

[QUOTE=SirClintonPortis;862313]Quality of the players just might have something to do with it. Football is not played solely with the mind. Some guys that are not as physically gifted may look uninspired when they're actually playing their guts out. Maybe, just maybe Todd Collins knew how to QB better than Jason Campbell.[/QUOTE]

Word to this!!! After the '07 season I was really hoping Todd would be our starter for a cpl/few years in Saunders system (Saunders as OC), giving Jason an opportunity to sit and learn the system inside and out.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:11 PM   #52
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

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Quality of the players just might have something to do with it. Football is not played solely with the mind. Some guys that are not as physically gifted may look uninspired when they're actually playing their guts out. Maybe, just maybe Todd Collins knew how to QB better than Jason Campbell.
That's pretty much it.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:26 PM   #53
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

Nice write up. Definitly QB 1st round. I'm not as high on CB as some of you I'd say we need a FS before a CB. Whether we have a shut down Corner or not a really good FS will make up for that and help the Corners. None of our FS are any good, Landry and Doughty are SS's and should only be used in the box to stop the run. After that RT or OL, WR, then it's a toss up either a CB or more OL.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:28 PM   #54
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

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Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis View Post
Quality of the players just might have something to do with it. Football is not played solely with the mind. Some guys that are not as physically gifted may look uninspired when they're actually playing their guts out. Maybe, just maybe Todd Collins knew how to QB better than Jason Campbell.
You realize pointing to quality of players (particularly on offense) is possibly the biggest indictment against Mike? It goes directly back to the opportunity cost of unneccesarily blowing up the defense and therefor not focusing to revamp the (lagging) offense first and foremost.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:30 PM   #55
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

...and the defense is (still) far from being finished. Getting a dominant NT to make the 3-4 work isn't an easy task by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:35 PM   #56
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

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...and the defense is (still) far from being finished. Getting a dominant NT to make the 3-4 work isn't an easy task by any stretch of the imagination.
I think if everyone comes back healthy then we are set on DL. But we need quality back ups I'll admit that. Cofield has been better then I expected, getting Jenkins back next year will only cause problems for defenses along with Kerrigan and Orakpo.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:39 PM   #57
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

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I think if everyone comes back healthy then we are set on DL. But we need quality back ups I'll admit that. Cofield has been better then I expected, getting Jenkins back next year will only cause problems for defenses along with Kerrigan and Orakpo.
Cofield is ok at best. We're not gonna be anything like Green Bay, Baltimore, Pitt or Houstan (under Wade) w/o a dominant NT. Why make the massive investment to a 3-4 if not to become elite (coming from a top 10 4-3)?

...I still haven't seen a solid argument for Mike's two biggest decisions: defense and QB.
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:06 PM   #58
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

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Cofield is ok at best. We're not gonna be anything like Green Bay, Baltimore, Pitt or Houstan (under Wade) w/o a dominant NT. Why make the massive investment to a 3-4 if not to become elite (coming from a top 10 4-3)?

...I still haven't seen a solid argument for Mike's two biggest decisions: defense and QB.
I don't like stats too much, but our performance on D is actually not that bad this season, at least in the stats.

We are giving up the 11th fewest points points per game at 20.5pts/G, which is actually slightly under the 21 points per game in 2009.

We are also giving up 17.6 1st downs a game this season. In 2009, we gave up 17.5 1st downs a game.

Our 3rd down percentage this season is 37%, which is lower than the defense's 40% 3rd down percentage in 2009.

So, some of our stats are back to levels similar to the 2009 levels.
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:07 PM   #59
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

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I (genuinely) admire the optimism you have for this franchise in its current state! Optimism is a great attitude for life in general...I have it...but I can't for the franchise.

Every major decision Mike, or Mike and/or BA, or Mike and/or BA and/or Kyle, made has set this team further and further back. Why was switching to the 3-4 defense necessary for the future? Is your argument saying only 3-4 defenses are elite? I don't buy that. Regardless, the opportunity cost of blowing up the defense has proven enormous. This fact is corroberated every time someone on the board acknowledges our offense is terrible and terribly deficient of talent i.e. we spend the last two off-seasons spending more than half our picks/FAs on defense.

...and the bottom line is our defense still isn't as good as it was before the switch. I think there's a stong argument to be made we'd still be a better 4-3 defense, especially based on our front 7, because we still don't have the NT required to make the 3-4 dominant. Soooooo we can say Mike and/or whoever decided to force the system w/o the most important piece in place. We can also say it will still require at least a few more major investments in the defense to "finish" it so to speak. NT. FS. CB (maybe two). Prior to the switch we really just needed a FS and maybe another CB. So again I say we're still better suited in the 4-3 because it eliminates the need for a dominant NT, which will require a high draft pick (think BJ Raji or Suh) or a bigtime FA signing.

Next we can talk about Mike's decisions on QBs. I don't have the energy to keep going over it though lol. Bottom line he's utterly wasted two critical years through 4 terrible moves (Jason, McNabb, Rex, Beck). We don't have a QB of the future or a vet QB to help mentor the guy of the future (please don't mention Rex here). Meanwhile several of the QBs he passed on, both solid vets and draft picks, are doing far better than either goofball on our roster.

Finally, Mike and this coaching staff has lost the team. Last Sunday against a division rival was the only real show of emotion we've seen from more than a couple/few players in months. Shit, the winless Colts play with more passion, as do the Dolphins and Browns.

Add all that to the week to week stupidity in play-calling, roster decisions (like running Torain instead of Helu) and game and clock management. This just isn't a serious franchise. I don't think it's the players. It's the leadership.
Dear The Goat,

I think it is very narrow minded of you to say EVERYTHING Shanny has done has made the team worse. That is quite false.

1. Teams switch from 3-4 to 4-3 defenses all the time. It's just a philosophical preference. New coaching staffs that come in want to mold the team to the belief system they have. You mean to tell me the aging 4-3 defense we had two years ago was going to be the long term future of this team anyway? We were one of the oldest teams in the league. We were going to have to get a bunch of new pieces anyway, so your argument is not valid on this point.

2. Of course our defense is not as good, it takes time to put the players in place that you need. I'm sure Phillip Daniels, Cornelius Griffin, Andre Carter, Renaldo Wynn, Jeremy Jarmon, HB Blades, Fred Smoot, Chris Horton and the rest would be LIGHT YEARS ahead of the unit we have today..... FALSE.

3. Part A. The Jason Campbell trade was not a bad move IMO. Jason had plenty of opportunity in several offenses in Washington and showed he could not get us to the next level. We traded him away FOR a pick, not giving up picks like we always used to. If a guy is not working in your system, do you just keep him for the sake of it? No. When we traded him we had no way of knowing exactly who we would or would not be able to get via FA. It's a risk, but you know that if you keep him you are not taking your team to the next level. If you go a different direction you at least have a chance.
Part B. This is the only thing I agree with you on. The McNabb trade was a debacle. However, teams take risks on FA players all the time. Some pan out and some done. If it pans out you look like a genius. If it doesn't, you look like... well, a goat. Just like Mike Smith looks like a genius if he converts that 4th and inches. He didn't so people criticize him. Hindsight is 20/20.
Part C & D. I've said it before and I will say it again. Rome wasn't built in a day. This team has faced years of inadequacies, deficiencies, and neglect in the hands of Cerrato. You can't fix everything at once. Shanny did not like any of the draft picks available and the FA's available either. It is asinine to say "Meanwhile several of the QBs he passed on, both solid vets and draft picks, are doing far better than either goofball on our roster." A good fit for another team does not mean it is a good fit for our system. You are comparing apples and oranges. There is no comparison here. A most resounding FALSE. Yes Grossman and Beck are inept to say the least, they will not lead us to the playoffs, but in reality we weren't going to the playoffs anyway. We will get a 1st round talent at QB in this year's draft and you will have nothing more to complain about at that position. Well, maybe... I'm sure you'll think of something.

4. I don't mean to come off as sounding rude, but I find it interesting that you would know the mood of the locker room unless you were in it. It's a long season, we've had a lot of injuries, and when you lose 6 straight games I'm guessing it takes a toll on you. However, I don't think that means Shanny and Co. have lost the team. I just means we are down a lot of starters, we are struggling in all phases of the game, and time's aren't good. If he had lost the locker room, Haynesworth 2.0, 3.0, etc would be exploding from the locker room via the media. I don't see that discontent anywhere. Do you?

Respectfully submitted,
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:13 PM   #60
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Re: Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

I also don't know that Rex was a terrible move.They didn't break the bank to get him
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