Report: Fred Davis, Trent Williams suspended four games

itvnetop · 12-05-2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog1

What....exactly do you base that statement on?

I base the statement on the fact that as long as players are producing on the field, fans (including myself) don't really give a hoot what they do on their own time... as long as it's not hurting anyone else. How much "partying" hurts themselves is semantics. It only becomes an issue with fans when players get caught and then reprimanded (thereby affecting the team and its potential weakness caused by punishment).

Out of sight, out of mind for most sports fans. When LT was racking up sacks, how many Giants' fans knew that the only thing he thought about in the huddle was his next crack hit? How many even cared? It didn't really come out until later. Out of sight, out of mind.

Professional athletes live lives that the average person will never come close to comprehending. We sit here and say, "Follow the rules... it's simple. Don't screw up." Throw a bunch of money, beautiful woman and an entourage of sycophants toward a young 20 something and human nature may change anyone.

Then it becomes "What can I get away with" vs. "What do I know will get me in trouble?" My original point stands that harder drugs are much more difficult to catch in a random drug test. The league's policy has a list of banned substances, including recreational drugs. The least harmful (marijuana) is easy to catch. You're basically saying, "If you're going to party, do it smart... do blow or ecstasy because you won't get caught." And that's a much more harmful proposition, imo.

This is going out on a limb here (wayyyy out)- But as an analogy: We tell kids the only way to protect themselves from an STD or an unwanted pregnancy is abstinence. Do kids really listen to that? Nope- we should be teaching them safer sex habits... Abstinence flies in the face of teen curiosity.

Many professional athletes are going to party... it's a given. Do we want some of them moving away from weed to Class 1 drugs b/c the latter won't get you popped? Baron Davis said that the NBA would cease to exist if the league tested for marijuana. I don't remember the specific percentage, but it was close to half I think.

12thMan · 12-05-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itvnetop

I base the statement on the fact that as long as players are producing on the field, fans (including myself) don't really give a hoot what they do on their own time... as long as it's not hurting anyone else. How much "partying" hurts themselves is semantics. It only becomes an issue with fans when players get caught and then reprimanded (thereby affecting the team and its potential weakness caused by punishment).

Out of sight, out of mind for most sports fans. When LT was racking up sacks, how many Giants' fans knew that the only thing he thought about in the huddle was his next crack hit? How many even cared because it was really never public until later?

Professional athletes live lives that the average person can't come close to comprehending. We sit here and say, "Follow the rules... it's simple. Don't screw up." Throw a bunch of money, beautiful woman and an entourage of sycophants towards a young 20 something and human nature may change anyone.

Then it becomes "What can I get away with" vs. "What do I know will get me in trouble?" My original point stands that harder drugs are much more difficult to catch in a random drug test. The league's policy has a list of banned substances, including recreational drugs. The least harmful (marijuana) is easy to catch. Your basically saying, "If you're going to party, do it smart... do blow or ecstasy because you won't get caught." And that's a much more harmful proposition, imo.

This is going out on a limb here (wayyyy out)- But as an analogy: We tell kids the only way to protect themselves from an STD or an unwanted pregnancy is abstinence. Do kids really listen to that? Nope- we should be teaching them safer sex habits... Abstinence flies in the face of teen curiosity.

Many professional athletes are going to party... it's a given. Do we want some of them moving away from weed to Class 1 drugs b/c the latter won't get you popped? Baron Davis is said that the NBA would cease to exist if the league tested for marijuana. I don't remember the specific percentage, but it was over half I think.

This 1000 times. Good post.

Hog1 · 12-05-2011, 08:19 PM

Two things:
1) All this....stuff is your opinion and may be shared by other people...or not. Certainly not based in any fact as you imply.
2) As far as THIS fan is concerned, anybody on our team that spends all their time loaded and trying to figure out how to beat the system...can walk today. I have no further use for you.
Note: you mention it several times.....the fans are not aware and do not know in general what goes on. I would imagine most care and actually have a sense of moral integrity....That may be the disconnect

SirClintonPortis · 12-05-2011, 08:51 PM

This thread is a fine example of the halo effect in action.

Definition:

Quote:

When we consider a person good (or bad) in one category, we are likely to make a similar evaluation in other categories.

It is as if we cannot easily separate categories. It may also be connected with dissonance avoidance, as making them good at one thing and bad at another would make an overall evaluation (which we do anyway) difficult.

This post is meant to be just an FYI.

ethat001 · 12-05-2011, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itvnetop

Professional athletes live lives that the average person will never come close to comprehending. We sit here and say, "Follow the rules... it's simple. Don't screw up." Throw a bunch of money, beautiful woman and an entourage of sycophants toward a young 20 something and human nature may change anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I think this all goes with a culture of losing, quite frankly. When you're losing you simply care less. When you're winning your attitude is different and you're more focused. I suppose they go hand in hand.

Great, insightful posts. Glad to part of an informed discussion.

Here are my thoughts:

1) ATHLETES WILL PARTY. Most of us here went to parties in college / early 20's. Now infuse $1 million dollars, 6 months vacation per year, and unlimited ladies. Almost ALL of us would be partying - perhaps not exactly like these guys. Why does everyone always find it suprising they party hard... I say as long as it doesn't interfere on the field, it's fine.

2) MARIJUANA IS NOT DANGEROUS. Why do does the NFL even test for it? It's certainly not performance enhancing. It's being approved all over the nation, and they're debating approval in Maryland this week. Obama's admitted to all sorts of substance abuse in the past.

3) DAVIS / TW WERE BONEHEADS. Still, despite #1 and #2 above, they were idiots. Not so much the fact they did MJ. The thing was they did it REPEATEDLY, knowing they were already caught before, and knowing the consequences. Remember, even Santana Moss was linked to substances -- which I think was more serious, because they were performance enhancing (ie. cheating) - but at least he wasn't dumb enough to get caught again.

4) WE'RE A LOSING TEAM. This leads to 12th Man's critical point above -- this would only happen on a losing team. If Clay Matthews was caught & suspended for steroids --> he'd let whole team down & kill the perfect season. There's a lot more pressure on him vs. TW/Davis. Losing begets apathy.

Again, the evil thought keeps creeping up -- the thought no one wants to admit having and that kills the team spirit/soul.... I have to admit my first reaction was "at least we may get a better draft pick..."

skinsfaninok · 12-05-2011, 09:18 PM

I've always said These guys don't pay my bills and will never (most likely) have any impact on my personal life so I don't care what they do off the field

DynamiteRave · 12-05-2011, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog1

Two things:
1) All this....stuff is your opinion and may be shared by other people...or not. Certainly not based in any fact as you imply.
2) As far as THIS fan is concerned, anybody on our team that spends all their time loaded and trying to figure out how to beat the system...can walk today. I have no further use for you.
Note: you mention it several times.....the fans are not aware and do not know in general what goes on. I would imagine most care and actually have a sense of moral integrity....That may be the disconnect

You're my homie Hog, but smoking weed is immoral? I certainly know a lot of well rounded stoners, in fact I'm dating one. Goes to church, works full time, in college, just likes to hit the j from time to time.

I just don't see smoking up as some sort of moral breakdown. Is it against the law and the NFL's policy? Yeah. Which means these guys shouldn't of been doing it.

Does this mean that they're some sort of amoral, soul less creatures? No. Like I had said in an earlier post, they aren't going Plaxico Burress, Mike Vick, Ray Carruth, Ray Lewis (okay well. they said he was innocent. but whatever) or Pacman Jones on anyone. Davis and T. Williams simply some young guys that can't get their heads on straight. They've had their 3 strikes, its time for someone to take these guys aside and figure out what the hell is going on in their head.

Again, since they are professional athletes in the NFL, they need to lay off the pot and I stand behind this punishment. But if they can't shake this weed thing on their own, they need to seek some direction under the wing of a veteran, a coach, someone in the front office, anyone needs to extend their help to these guys before they end up going the way of Ricky Williams.

skinsfaninok · 12-05-2011, 09:28 PM

I don't smoke weed but I Agree with Rave, just because you may smoke here and there doesn't mean your a bad dude.. In fact Trent doesn't surprise me, most of the players in this town (OU) are around it all the time.. Is what it is, Weed will always be around and people you wouldn't think do it sometimes will. I'd be willing to bet many and i mean most of the roster of this team has or does smoke pot.

GMScud · 12-05-2011, 09:57 PM

To me morality has nothing to do with this situation. I personally think it's a joke that marijuana is illegal yet alcohol isn't. I have no qualms with marijuana at all, really.

However, it is in fact illegal and has been for a long time. I certainly don't think Fred Davis and Trent Williams are bad people (by most accounts I've heard, they're both actually pretty good guys), but I do think they are both really stupid for testing positive not once, not twice, but three times. They are both very young, but in a position where they are either earning (Trent) or capable of earning (Fred) tens of millions of dollars. Plus they have lots of other guys counting on them.

For me, it's not that we're dealing with bad or immoral guys, just a couple of idiots that need to screw their heads on properly. Just don't smoke weed, fellas. It's really selfish and extremely dumb.

Hog1 · 12-05-2011, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

You're my homie Hog, but smoking weed is immoral? I certainly know a lot of well rounded stoners, in fact I'm dating one. Goes to church, works full time, in college, just likes to hit the j from time to time.

I just don't see smoking up as some sort of moral breakdown. Is it against the law and the NFL's policy? Yeah. Which means these guys shouldn't of been doing it.

Does this mean that they're some sort of amoral, soul less creatures? No. Like I had said in an earlier post, they aren't going Plaxico Burress, Mike Vick, Ray Carruth, Ray Lewis (okay well. they said he was innocent. but whatever) or Pacman Jones on anyone. Davis and T. Williams simply some young guys that can't get their heads on straight. They've had their 3 strikes, its time for someone to take these guys aside and figure out what the hell is going on in their head.

Again, since they are professional athletes in the NFL, they need to lay off the pot and I stand behind this punishment. But if they can't shake this weed thing on their own, they need to seek some direction under the wing of a veteran, a coach, someone in the front office, anyone needs to extend their help to these guys before they end up going the way of Ricky Williams.

As always D, the voice of reason cuts clean.
That part of my note was intended that "fans" care but are unaware of much of this stuff that gets the guys in trouble. That if they knew they would not be happy about it and not just when the S... hits the fan. Mostly it stays in house or at least not generally known to the public?
Obviously a fail on that point...AND I did not intend to defame or besmirch anyone for the occasional....smoke. I have no problem with any of that except for disturbing number of Taco Bell benders involved. Been down a few roads myself.
However....I fully meant that if they can't get with the program......get gone.
For better or worse, there is just way to much riding on them to suffer the questionable decision making of youth.
As was pointed out, they are fortunate indeed it was not a year....

DynamiteRave · 12-05-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog1

As always D, the voice of reason cuts clean.
That part of my note was intended that "fans" care but are unaware of much of this stuff that gets the guys in trouble. That if they knew they would not be happy about it and not just when the S... hits the fan. Mostly it stays in house or at least not generally known to the public?
Obviously a fail on that point...AND I did not intend to defame or besmirch anyone for the occasional....smoke. I have no problem with any of that except for disturbing number of Taco Bell benders involved. Been down a few roads myself.
However....I fully meant that if they can't get with the program......get gone.
For better or worse, there is just way to much riding on them to suffer the questionable decision making of youth.
As was pointed out, they are fortunate indeed it was not a year....

I understand what you're saying.

And I agree.

Dirtbag59 · 12-06-2011, 12:52 AM

As I've always said. Smoking pot should be illegal. Vaporizing or eating pot on the other hand should be legal. Not that I use it but it's kind of hard to take people preaching all the health benefits of pot seriously when they're smoking it.

The Goat · 12-06-2011, 01:01 AM

Marijuana is bad, ummmkay. If you smoke marijuana, you're bad, ummmkay.

DynamiteRave · 12-06-2011, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

As I've always said. Smoking pot should be illegal. Vaporizing or eating pot on the other hand should be legal. Not that I use it but it's kind of hard to take people preaching all the health benefits of pot seriously when they're smoking it.

I'll open Pandora's Box and ask... What's the difference?

Dirtbag59 · 12-06-2011, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

I'll open Pandora's Box and ask... What's the difference?

The smell. The stench of living next to someone that totes up regularly is unbearable if you're not a user. Vaporizers and baked goods (assuming they're cooked below a certain temperature) produce little or no odor. Plus less cancer lower health care cost, environmentally friendly, saves money for the smoker blah blah blah. Basically it's a win-win. Neighbors don't have to smell it and pot heads can enjoy their product.

12-05-2011, 08:19 PM	#123
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 8,376	Re: Report: Fred Davis, Trent Williams suspended four games Two things: 1) All this....stuff is your opinion and may be shared by other people...or not. Certainly not based in any fact as you imply. 2) As far as THIS fan is concerned, anybody on our team that spends all their time loaded and trying to figure out how to beat the system...can walk today. I have no further use for you. Note: you mention it several times.....the fans are not aware and do not know in general what goes on. I would imagine most care and actually have a sense of moral integrity....That may be the disconnect __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... Win! Always win! By fair means or foul, by soft words and hard deeds... by treachery, by cunning, by malpractice... but always win--Edward Teach

12-05-2011, 09:18 PM	#126
skinsfaninok Gamebreaker Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Norman, OK Age: 26 Posts: 12,994	Re: Report: Fred Davis, Trent Williams suspended four games I've always said These guys don't pay my bills and will never (most likely) have any impact on my personal life so I don't care what they do off the field __________________ Robert Griffin III "if you're good at something, never do it for free"- The Joker

12-05-2011, 09:28 PM	#128
skinsfaninok Gamebreaker Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Norman, OK Age: 26 Posts: 12,994	Re: Report: Fred Davis, Trent Williams suspended four games I don't smoke weed but I Agree with Rave, just because you may smoke here and there doesn't mean your a bad dude.. In fact Trent doesn't surprise me, most of the players in this town (OU) are around it all the time.. Is what it is, Weed will always be around and people you wouldn't think do it sometimes will. I'd be willing to bet many and i mean most of the roster of this team has or does smoke pot. __________________ Robert Griffin III "if you're good at something, never do it for free"- The Joker

12-05-2011, 09:57 PM	#129
GMScud Swearinger Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Washington, DC Age: 34 Posts: 12,623	Re: Report: Fred Davis, Trent Williams suspended four games To me morality has nothing to do with this situation. I personally think it's a joke that marijuana is illegal yet alcohol isn't. I have no qualms with marijuana at all, really. However, it is in fact illegal and has been for a long time. I certainly don't think Fred Davis and Trent Williams are bad people (by most accounts I've heard, they're both actually pretty good guys), but I do think they are both really stupid for testing positive not once, not twice, but three times. They are both very young, but in a position where they are either earning (Trent) or capable of earning (Fred) tens of millions of dollars. Plus they have lots of other guys counting on them. For me, it's not that we're dealing with bad or immoral guys, just a couple of idiots that need to screw their heads on properly. Just don't smoke weed, fellas. It's really selfish and extremely dumb. __________________ Insert witty signature here

12-06-2011, 12:52 AM	#132
Dirtbag59 Naega jeil jal naga Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Atlanta, Georgia From: Silver Spring, Maryland Age: 27 Posts: 13,956	Re: Report: Fred Davis, Trent Williams suspended four games As I've always said. Smoking pot should be illegal. Vaporizing or eating pot on the other hand should be legal. Not that I use it but it's kind of hard to take people preaching all the health benefits of pot seriously when they're smoking it. __________________ Flacco is 1337 Fanclub President Last edited by Dirtbag59; 12-06-2011 at 12:57 AM.

12-06-2011, 01:01 AM	#133
The Goat Pro Bowl Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,021	Re: Report: Fred Davis, Trent Williams suspended four games Marijuana is bad, ummmkay. If you smoke marijuana, you're bad, ummmkay. __________________ Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes he eats you.

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Report: Fred Davis, Trent Williams suspended four games

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