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Old 12-31-2011, 07:23 AM   #61
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Re: Mike Shanahan

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
In the end to even discuss firing the guy now is ridiculous. Going in a different direction at this point would only guarantee the franchise will stay stuck in the mid spinning it's wheels.

That said I think the pressure will be on in 2012 to show some serious improvement in the 'W' column. 9-10 wins at least.
Depends on if we get a QB and have Rex as our back up.
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:33 AM   #62
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Re: Mike Shanahan

Typical Redskin fans fire the coach after 2 or 3 years and change it all over again. Hello thats why we suck so much because of the this disfunctional thinking. Most of you have not been a Redskins fan when we were a Super Bowl franchise so you dont know what its like to even be a fan of a Champion. So all you arm chair GM's and Coaches just sit back and drink your cheap beer and leave the coaching to the real coaches. Shanny will get us back to the winning ways and you can not expect him to be a miracle worker in just 2 years with this shit show we had here for 10 years. HTTR
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:41 AM   #63
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Re: Mike Shanahan

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I feel your pain! Not sure I can take an 11 loss season this year. I really want to beat the Eagles on Sunday! Seriously, as for wins and losses in the evaluation equation, I think they are always there. The variables in the algorithm are weighted, and the weight {assigned to wins as a means of evaluating the coach} should increase with each year he moves forward in his contract. In other words, the longer he coaches, the more pressure there is to produce wins.

In Shanahan's situation, I think he is still in that phase where the number of wins carries a relatively low weight. In my view, that wiegt increases some beginning next season. I don't think he can survive 4-12 or 5-11 next season. I say that because attendance was down this year and the team had to remove seats from the stadium to avoid a local TV blackout for the Vikings game. If that problem persists/increases next year, Snyder will likely make a move.

I have said in a couple of posts that it is important to improve the play at the QB position next season. I feel that way because QB play is the area of greatest impact on the outcome of close games like the Redskins played this year (Dallas, Dallas, Philly, Patriots, etc.). Not to mention the impact really poor QB play had on the outcome of the Dolphins game. The Redskins and Shanahan need measuarble improvement in the win column for 2012. Most likely 7-9 would be golden for Shanny, 6-10 marginal but probably OK. I just don't think Mike can survivie a 4-12 or 5-11 disaster in year three! It's time to move up a bit in the power poll in 2012.

exactly, there is no argument of "progress made" if you continue show up on the field with these "improved variables" and it come out and lose 10+ games 3 years in a row.
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:58 PM   #64
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Re: Mike Shanahan

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You don't sound grumpy, you sound passionate. I like that.

The argument itself is dangerous, and I can try to explain why. Lets say Mike Shanahan posted 6-10 seasons every year throughout his contract, until December 2014. If you cut and pasted this argument into December 2014, it would be no more or less fallacious than it is at this very moment. Everything you wrote right here will still be true in three years. Granted: you might not be as inclined to write this after five bad years instead of two, but that's the big point here.

Two years is an eternity in the NFL. I don't know whether you just haven't been following all of Mike Shanahan's gaffes at Redskins Park, or whether you just don't think they're really a big deal. What's indisputable is that they have limited the ability of the team to get much better.

What we need to analyze as fans is whether these mistakes are likely to stop. If they don't stop, the team is unlikely to get any better in 2012, its unlikely to get better in 2013, and there's no amount of money you can put into a coaching contract to make the whole thing work.

Furthermore, better coaches are out there. Now, whether those highly desired coaches are interested in taking this job is another issue. You could argue back in 2008, the best candidates were not interested (though they did interview). And that in 2008, someone like Mike Shanahan (or Chan Gailey) was the best that the Redskins could have done.

That, to me, is a very logical argument for keeping Mike Shanahan: he's a proven head coach and its too likely that we'll downgrade our coaching staff if we make another switch. Why would anyone want to take this job if the only guy the owner gave more than two years happened to be named Joe Gibbs (who in defense of Snyder, also had the best season in the Snyder era in his second season).

But when you compare and contrast Gibbs (who also qualifies under all the criteria you defended Shanahan with) with Mike Shanahan just by what they accomplished in two years (and Zorn left more pro talent behind than Spurrier, but I'll ignore that for now), Gibbs already had the Redskins winning. Shanahan didn't change everything.

I mean, you just have to go back six years to see why the job Shanahan has been doing isn't acceptable. It's not like we weren't here before. It took one bad season to clean up the 2003 mess. The 2009 mess wasn't nearly that deep, and if anything, the Redskins have gone backwards since then.
Hmm mmm. In two full seasons Mike has failed (epically) to secure a QB who can lead a team to the playoffs. His best chance, ironically, was probably with the QB he inherited from Zorn.

We all want to see a competitive Skins team next year. Some realize it will require an outlier type year from Mike in his talent evaluation and coaching.
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:39 AM   #65
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Re: Mike Shanahan

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Hmm mmm. In two full seasons Mike has failed (epically) to secure a QB who can lead a team to the playoffs. His best chance, ironically, was probably with the QB he inherited from Zorn.

We all want to see a competitive Skins team next year. Some realize it will require an outlier type year from Mike in his talent evaluation and coaching.
with all due respect, JC wasnt leading anybody to shit. JC was adequate to run an offense on life support, thats it. in 5 years of JC it took 5 amazing weeks of todd collins to lead this team to the playoffs . . . once. whooppity doo.

we are lucky to have mike shanahan.
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:19 PM   #66
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Re: Mike Shanahan

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Agreed about Beck, although he wasnt in house before the 2010 draft. They see what he is now and we move on.
Beck wasn't the answer by a long shot and neither was Grossman. It would have been better had Shanahan not traded McNabb away. But how could you keep a QB that didn't want to work hard? Shanahan could have promoted Jonathan Crompton before the season to enter him in the QB mix at some point, but that would have caused more instability at the QB position. So after Mike Shanahan staked his reputation on John Beck, there was no direction to go with other than what he had.

In year 3, Mike Shanahan has to get it right for the quarterback position since he's made 3 huge mistakes that has contributed to his 11-20 record going into the final game of the season.
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:28 PM   #67
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Re: Mike Shanahan

I think Shanahan is building the team the right which is going to take sometime. He missed on both McNabb and Brown. Other than that the guy has been pretty good for the most part acquiring talent. Our team is a lot younger and have more depth than we had prior to his arrival. We don't have the wins to show for it but this team is definitely improved.
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:36 PM   #68
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Re: Mike Shanahan

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Originally Posted by skins89moss View Post
Typical Redskin fans fire the coach after 2 or 3 years and change it all over again. Hello thats why we suck so much because of the this disfunctional thinking. Most of you have not been a Redskins fan when we were a Super Bowl franchise so you dont know what its like to even be a fan of a Champion. So all you arm chair GM's and Coaches just sit back and drink your cheap beer and leave the coaching to the real coaches. Shanny will get us back to the winning ways and you can not expect him to be a miracle worker in just 2 years with this shit show we had here for 10 years. HTTR
I couldnt agree more. Redskins fans have become conditioned to a revolving door at head coach because instant success isnt achieved. This organization has been in the process of decay and decline for over a decade so the fix is going to take some time. I actually think the process is going to take longer than MS's current contract. Hopefully he stays or someone who does it his way (KS maybe) takes his place so that there can be some kind of continuity that this organization so desperately needs.
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:26 PM   #69
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Re: Mike Shanahan

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Originally Posted by skins89moss View Post
Typical Redskin fans fire the coach after 2 or 3 years and change it all over again. Hello thats why we suck so much because of the this disfunctional thinking. Most of you have not been a Redskins fan when we were a Super Bowl franchise so you dont know what its like to even be a fan of a Champion. So all you arm chair GM's and Coaches just sit back and drink your cheap beer and leave the coaching to the real coaches. Shanny will get us back to the winning ways and you can not expect him to be a miracle worker in just 2 years with this shit show we had here for 10 years. HTTR
SIR, I take issue with your.......Balderdashery.
Oh Wait...No I don't. I totally agree!
NICE post
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:17 PM   #70
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I've made it no secret of my dislike disappointment in shanny
A lot of people make a lot of good points on both sides of the argument.I do not want to see him fired now,but if we suck again next yr then it's time to reevaluate.If he makes another terrible qb choice then I think he absolutely needs to go or take his power away from him where he makes no personel descisions
If we go into next season and grossman is the starter I think my head will explode.Neither grossman or beck should be on this roster next yr.If we draft a rookie I don't want grossman keeping the seat warm,his turnover ratio is ridiculous


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Old 01-01-2012, 05:59 PM   #71
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Re: Mike Shanahan

LMAO Instant = 2 years
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:04 PM   #72
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Re: Mike Shanahan

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LMAO Instant = 2 years
You have to consider that Shanahan flipped over the roster and installed a new systems on both sides of the ball. Last year we didn't any free agency. This year we didn't have an off-season. You got to give the guy sometime to get things together.
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:17 PM   #73
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Re: Mike Shanahan

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You have to consider that Shanahan flipped over the roster and installed a new systems on both sides of the ball. Last year we didn't any free agency. This year we didn't have an off-season. You got to give the guy sometime to get things together.
Yeah but...he's just not a good coach at this stage. There are several coaches in the league that would have taken both the '10 and '11 Skins to 9 or 10 wins and probably the playoffs. Belichick. Peyton. McCarthy. Both Harbaughs IMO. That's just guys with jobs today.

I think if we had a real FO structure w/ a head coach that answered to the GM etc there would be a conversation at this point. Personally, I would ask Mike why he's still coaching. He didn't come out of retirement with a plan to win. He had/has no idea which QB could be successful in his system. He also chose a team that was built (well) for the 4-3 defense and blew it up. Why not go to a team with the 3-4 already installed?

I think the answer is because he gets total control of the Skins, which is really just about his ego. His supreme control of this franchise is more important than wins and it's all tied up with his firing in Denver and again a lot of ego. I hate to think how much time we'll waste with Shanahan. There are a lot of solid coaches out there, especially over the next few months, who could take this team places.
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:25 PM   #74
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Re: Mike Shanahan

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You have to consider that Shanahan flipped over the roster and installed a new systems on both sides of the ball. Last year we didn't any free agency. This year we didn't have an off-season. You got to give the guy sometime to get things together.
If we had no free agency last year, that's on Shanahan because he was in charge.

If we had no off-season for acquisition this year, then where did Gaffney, Bowen, Cofield, and Wilson come from? It may have been compressed by the lockout but there still was a window for player acquisition.

I think that Shanahan deserves more time and patience but your excuses for him don't fly.
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:35 PM   #75
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Re: Mike Shanahan

Of course he came with a plan to win. He just didn't come with the intention of a short term fix. If we all wanted another Spags, Morriss, Haley fine. But I'm pretty sure we all wanted/want success over time. Not just one year and done.

And clinging to the 2009 defense is absurd in my opinion. Changes had to be made. Unless we wanted to hold on to the likes of Griffin, Montgomery, Wynn, Daniels (and more) just a little too long.
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