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What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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Old 01-04-2012, 10:38 PM   #196
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re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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This thread keeps making me think about the Cowboys punter.

Speaking of which, why can no one hit that scoreboard anymore? If the Cowboys are going to consistently fail to qualify for the playoffs, I don't want them to go quietly. I want a blooper reel.

*there is some original artwork in that video, fyi
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:06 PM   #197
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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In what way is he similar to Matt Cassel? These guys are not similar.
I'll basically type what I said in my post but more explanation and maybe since it's an answer to your question it will land this time... College backup drafted late, becomes a pro backup on a team with a ton of talent and a highly productive offense. In limited time they show flashes of ability and production while surrounded by said talent in said system. Similar.

Again, it's very hard to project how they will respond as a starter and with heightened responsibility and scrutiny.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:07 PM   #198
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

By the way, thanks to whoever fixed Matt Flynn's name in the thread title. That was starting to bug me a bit.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:21 PM   #199
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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By the way, thanks to whoever fixed Matt Flynn's name in the thread title. That was starting to bug me a bit.
I'll 2nd that.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:27 PM   #200
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

I have to admit. This pic has me worried.

I knew between RG3 and Flynn that RG3 would have the uncontested edge in intangibles but it's hard to take an athlete seriously when they smoke cigarettes. Especially when they're unproven. Maybe he's quit since then but still. Not a good sign.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:35 PM   #201
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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I think you should care about their system and their talent because its the context in which Flynn is being evaluated.
If you're saying you like Flynn because of his physical skillset then by all means dismiss the context.
But, if you like Flynn because of his production you'd better play close attention to the system and the talent where he amassed that production.
Because rest assured you're signing/trading Flynn's physical skillset not his production.
And imo Flynn skillset suggest that he's more of the quintessential 'system' QB then he is a scheme diverse physically gifted QB.
And if you're signing a system QB you'd better be able to replicate the the pieces of that system (caoching/gameplanning/playcalling/talent (receiving corps/OL etc) if you want similar results.
I better? Or else what? By the way, I said deal's off if GB franchises him, and we have to trade to get him. Other than WR I don't think they have better talent and there are plenty of options to upgrade at WR. Our TEs and running backs are just as good, and I'd even put our O-line up against theirs. System is very similar to Kyle's. People still call Brady a system QB. Well, he systemed his way to 3 Super Bowls.

And I don't get carried away with physical talents or "gifts". Brady looked like a dufus at the combine, Brees is short, Rivers throws like a girl and there's a long list of dudes with "physical gifts" who sucked ass in the NFL (see Ryan Leaf and Heath Schuler). Who knows, he could suck somewhere else, but if we don't have to give up picks to get him I think he's worth a shot. Hell, if they can get Flynn and RGIII drops to 6, I'd be OK with taking them both.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:40 PM   #202
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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I'll basically type what I said in my post but more explanation and maybe since it's an answer to your question it will land this time... College backup drafted late, becomes a pro backup on a team with a ton of talent and a highly productive offense. In limited time they show flashes of ability and production while surrounded by said talent in said system. Similar.

Again, it's very hard to project how they will respond as a starter and with heightened responsibility and scrutiny.
Cassel hasn't been terrible in KC, and even though NE won 11 games with Cassel, he wasn't putting up the same numbers as Brady. He is what he is. I think the year before Brady threw for over 50 TDs. I would have taken Cassel here over the train wreck we've had over the last 2 years.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:15 AM   #203
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

flynn does have the all time packers single game TD touchdown record in only 2 attempts. funny.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:38 AM   #204
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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I better? Or else what?
Or risk a serious case of buyers remorse when the QBs production with your team doesn't match his production with his old team.

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Other than WR I don't think they have better talent and there are plenty of options to upgrade at WR. Our TEs and running backs are just as good, and I'd even put our O-line up against theirs.
So we agree that there talent level at WR is better.
Where we disagree is by what margin.
Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Donald Driver are significantly better then our WRs to the extent that counting on a 1 FA WR to stem the gap won't be enough.

For the sake of not quibbling I agree that ours TEs and RBs are a push.

But.
Apart from talent there's a continuity gap that is as much a factor in scheme success as talent.

What if Flynn's productivity is derived only from being in the Green Bay's superior offensive system/weapons and developing chemistry and comfort in the system over time?

Ala Kevin Kolb and Donovan McNabb with the Eagles?

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System is very similar to Kyle's.
In what way?
In a sense all NFL systems are similar.
For me a similar scheme is one where the core concepts and verbiage are the same to the point where the name of the play in one system is either the same or very close to the name of the same play in the other system.
For example David Anderson came from Houston and was able to play right away because he spoke the language of our offense.
I don't think Green Bay and our offense share the same language.
Conceptually I see Green Bay's offense as 5-7 step drop vertical rhythm passing game heavy shotgun w/a focus that attacks sideline to sideline with downflied instride especially with crossers and posts that gain RAC yardage for the WRs; with a sprinkle under center offense with 3 TEs and muliple RBs.

I see our offense as a mix of boot-swap playaction passing and 3-5-7 step rhythm passing with a focus on zone beating in-breaking or stop routes that attacks down the center of the field.

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And I don't get carried away with physical talents or "gifts".
Um okay? No one is asking you to get carried away.
But throughout your advocacy for Flynn you haven't mentioned anything about his skillset.
My point is that when you sign a QB you get their skillset not their production.

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there's a long list of dudes with "physical gifts" who sucked ass in the NFL
Okay.
There's an even longer list of QBs that didn't have the physical skillset to have more then a cup of coffee in the NFL.
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Who knows, he could suck somewhere else, but if we don't have to give up picks to get him I think he's worth a shot.
I'm not predicting whether Flynn will be good/not good.
My point is that Flynn is no different then any other journeyman/second chance QB available (Jimmy Clausen, Chad Henne, Josh Johnson, Matt Moore, etc) and they all should be judged on their skillset not their production.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:41 AM   #205
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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I love all those things and value them higher then just one guy who happens to be an awesome qb. System QB's mean a lot more flexibility.
Well you can trade/sign for 1 guy.
You cannot trade/sign an entire offense that creates a 'system' QB.

I think you have it backwards.
A system QB forces the team to re-create that system to have success.
A scheme diverse i.e. physically talented QB means more flexibility.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:10 AM   #206
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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Well you can trade/sign for 1 guy.
You cannot trade/sign an entire offense that creates a 'system' QB.

I think you have it backwards.
A system QB forces the team to re-create that system to have success.
A scheme diverse i.e. physically talented QB means more flexibility.

I guess my comment is more of a digg at Kyle Shanahan.

And I donít think we should design a system around a guy that pundits have deemed a ďsystem qbĒ, its more that we should design a system where not just once in a generation talent can operate it.


My thought is that to call Flynn a system quarterback is to imply Rodgers is one too. Weve all heard people call Tom Brady a system QB, particularly when Cassel stepped in and threw for almost 4k yards. And we hear it at the college level all day long. It just seems to me if Aaron Rodgers can have arguably the best season ever for a QB and his back up can step in and set multiple all time GB records then whats so bad about having a system that allows guys like Rodgers, Brady or Flynn to be successful?

Really great QBís that can do it all are so rare. So sure a guy like Luck may be able to step into any offense and have great success but the odds of landing someone as highly touted as him are seldom to none. Drafting a guys like Rodgers or Flynn that arnt as highly touted but still have the necessary abilities to be very successful when constrained to a particular system, to me, make teams much more flexible. If your schemes are designed for only the very best, then the teamís overall success has a ceiling thatís directly determined by teamís personal, just look at the Colts.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:21 AM   #207
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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Cassel hasn't been terrible in KC, and even though NE won 11 games with Cassel, he wasn't putting up the same numbers as Brady. He is what he is. I think the year before Brady threw for over 50 TDs. I would have taken Cassel here over the train wreck we've had over the last 2 years.
I don't think I ever said he was awful. I just said the comparison was valid.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:33 AM   #208
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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I guess my comment is more of a digg at Kyle Shanahan.

And I donít think we should design a system around a guy that pundits have deemed a ďsystem qbĒ, its more that we should design a system where not just once in a generation talent can operate it.


My thought is that to call Flynn a system quarterback is to imply Rodgers is one too. Weve all heard people call Tom Brady a system QB, particularly when Cassel stepped in and threw for almost 4k yards. And we hear it at the college level all day long. It just seems to me if Aaron Rodgers can have arguably the best season ever for a QB and his back up can step in and set multiple all time GB records then whats so bad about having a system that allows guys like Rodgers, Brady or Flynn to be successful?

Really great QBís that can do it all are so rare. So sure a guy like Luck may be able to step into any offense and have great success but the odds of landing someone as highly touted as him are seldom to none. Drafting a guys like Rodgers or Flynn that arnt as highly touted but still have the necessary abilities to be very successful when constrained to a particular system, to me, make teams much more flexible. If your schemes are designed for only the very best, then the teamís overall success has a ceiling thatís directly determined by teamís personal, just look at the Colts.
We run a very similar system and if we add a bonafied #1 Receiver, and Hankserson proves to be a competent #2, we'll have plenty of talent around him. Moss #3, our young RB rotation, Davis and Cooley and 9 draft picks and free agency to fill other needs. Top 15 Defense that is young. Flynn wouldn't be walking into a terrible situation.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:45 AM   #209
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

You know, the more I think about it, the more I don't mind a "system" quarterback if within the 'skins system, he's successful and plays with the Redskins his entire career. Why would I care about what he could do elsewhere?
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:57 PM   #210
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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We run a very similar system and if we add a bonafied #1 Receiver, and Hankserson proves to be a competent #2, we'll have plenty of talent around him. Moss #3, our young RB rotation, Davis and Cooley and 9 draft picks and free agency to fill other needs. Top 15 Defense that is young. Flynn wouldn't be walking into a terrible situation.
Please explain to me the similarities to me in a way that refutes 30gut's very cogent and detailed argument that we don't so that I can weigh the credibility of each statement. Right now all you have done is make the general, unsupported statement that GB runs a similar system to us.

As to Flynn, the talent drop-off from GB to us is significant at the WR position. Maybe Flynn can compensate for that, maybe not. As I said earlier, if it's just money at issue, sure, grab him BUT be sure to add a solid rookie in the first or 2nd round. Right now, I believe that, though holes still exist, there is enough in place to draft and develop the "QB of the Future". Not sure if Flynn is that guy so I think we need to draft at least one QB who we think may be the guy.
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