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What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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Old 01-19-2012, 10:47 AM   #346
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

In his defense, I think he just said a first round pick has played in the Super Bowl, not necessarily won. As have 2nd round picks, 6th round picks and FAs of course.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:52 AM   #347
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

You can win the super bowl with a free agent pickup at QB, you just can't win it with a third or fourth rate FA signing at quarterback.
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:16 PM   #348
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
You can win the super bowl with a free agent pickup at QB, you just can't win it with a third or fourth rate FA signing at quarterback.
Trent Dilfer disagrees. :cheeky-sm
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:57 PM   #349
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

Quote:
Originally Posted by CultBrennan59 View Post
Drew Brees won it, he was a free agent signing, and Kurt Warner went there as a FA to Arizona
As I said, hit or miss. But how often does that happen? Very rarely. Warner won the Super Bowl in 1999 and lost it on 2008. Brees won it in 2009. Warner was not a free agent pick up coming from another team. He signed from off of the street without any NFL experience. As far as Brees goes, the Chargers did get a draft pick later from New Orleans as compensation. Brees was released due to the Chargers having spent a #1 draft pick on Phillip Rivers and Brees was coming off a career threatening shoulder injury.


From 2004 until 2010, a first round draft choice played quarterback in the Super Bowl. Anyway you put it, three first round draft choice QBs remain active in the playoffs which means one of them or two of them will be in the Super Bowl again for the 8th straight year.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:19 PM   #350
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
Sorry but you're wrong on both counts.

As CB59 has already mentioned Brees was a free agent in NO, and was orginally a 2nd round pick.

We've had our share of first rounders come through here, that alone should show you that a first round QB is far from any sort of guarantee for success.
You and several others completely misquoted me. I didn't say that Drew Brees, who was a 2nd round selection, and Kurt Warner, who was a free agent, didn't play in the Super Bowl. Anything other than a frachise QB either hit or miss as a said in my initial post.

I said nothing about the Redskins or their mess of quarterbacks under the Turner, Schottenheimer, Spurrier, Gibbs II, Zorn, and Shanahan regimes. I said nothing about that either. Again, you misquoted me.

I simply stated that the fact that during the last 7 Super Bowls, there has been a first round selection at quarterback that has played in the big game. Not necessarily won it but played in it. And there will be for the 8th straight Super Bowl one or two first round draft choices that will play in the Super Bowl in a few weeks.

So, most of the time, a first round draft choice playing quarterback is guaranteed success more so than a free agent QB or even a QB selected anywhere between the 2nd and 7th round of the draft.

Now, please quote me.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:23 PM   #351
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever View Post
As I said, hit or miss. But how often does that happen? Very rarely. Warner won the Super Bowl in 1999 and lost it on 2008. Brees won it in 2009. Warner was not a free agent pick up coming from another team. He signed from off of the street without any NFL experience. As far as Brees goes, the Chargers did get a draft pick later from New Orleans as compensation. Brees was released due to the Chargers having spent a #1 draft pick on Phillip Rivers and Brees was coming off a career threatening shoulder injury.


From 2004 until 2010, a first round draft choice played quarterback in the Super Bowl. Anyway you put it, three first round draft choice QBs remain active in the playoffs which means one of them or two of them will be in the Super Bowl again for the 8th straight year.
You cannot argue with data; you are absolutely correct.

Here is some more data you cannot argue with. Here are first round QB picks over the last decade or so who have been "less than satisfactory":
Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Duante Culpepper (injury ended his career early)
Cade McNown
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey (fondly remembered around here...)
Byron Leftwich (not horrible but not great either)
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman (you already have a first round pick in town; why worry about getting another one)
JP Losman
Jason Campbell (Skins ditched that first round pick...)
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
The data say that you can find great QBs in the first round AND that you can find mediocre QBs in the first round AND that you can find QBs that just cannot play in the first round.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:36 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
You cannot argue with data; you are absolutely correct.

Here is some more data you cannot argue with. Here are first round QB picks over the last decade or so who have been "less than satisfactory":
Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Duante Culpepper (injury ended his career early)
Cade McNown
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey (fondly remembered around here...)
Byron Leftwich (not horrible but not great either)
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman (you already have a first round pick in town; why worry about getting another one)
JP Losman
Jason Campbell (Skins ditched that first round pick...)
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
The data say that you can find great QBs in the first round AND that you can find mediocre QBs in the first round AND that you can find QBs that just cannot play in the first round.
And there is no sure thing that luck won't be on this list or rg3

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Old 01-19-2012, 04:17 PM   #353
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

Just a couple of thoughts:

Joe Montana - 4 Super Bowl rings: 3rd round draft pick, 82nd overall pick.
Tom Brady - 3 Super Bowl rings (and can possibly add a fourth) 6th round pick, #199.
Roger Staubach - 2 Super Bowl rings - 10th round draft pick
Bart Starr - 2 Super Bowl Rings - 17th round draft pick
Brett Favre - 1 Super Bowl Ring - 2nd Round pick
Joe Theismann - 1 Super Bowl Ring - 4th Round Pick

Of the six I mentioned, four have multiple Super Bowl rings. All have had multiple Super Bowl appearances. Of the ten multiple super bowl winning quarterbacks, four of them are not 1st round picks. And out of the four quarterbacks with the most super bowl wins (3 or more), two are on this list, the other two are first rounders.

Just another tidbit, of the three quarterbacks to have played in multiple Super Bowls and lose them all, two of them are first round picks (Jim Kelly and Craig Morton.)

While no doubt quarterbacks who are first round picks for the most part are first round picks because they're pretty doggone good. But, I think there are many aspects to a quarterback being developed into that great Championship quarterback other than just them being highly recognized coming out of college.

I think a lot also depends upon how much work that quarterback puts into making himself better after he turns pro - no matter if he's a first or a 7th round pick. So, I completely believe that there are quarterbacks that aren't highly regarded coming out of college, but can obviously work hard and move themselves into an elite status. And, it also has a lot to do with who those coaches are that is present during that development stage. I think it could come down to simply having the right coaches there and the guy who's willing to put 110% into improving himself. SO, I don't know if I would say you're virtually guaranteed a great quarterback in the first round.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:25 PM   #354
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlmpetert View Post
My opinion was, if Matt Flynn can be successful in GBs offense then I think he has a high likelihood of finding success in our offense, partly because I view both offenses as very similar. But a couple people, namely GTripp and 30gut, kept saying that the systems are very different, so the argument that Flynn would be good in Kyles system because hes been good in GBs system is flawed.
My point was and remains that if Flynn is successful in this offense its gonna because of his physical skillset not because the schemes are 'very similar'.
Which was a point being made here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44Deezel View Post
System is very similar to Kyle's......And I don't get carried away with physical talents or "gifts".
Valuing schematic familiarity over skillset.

Here's what I said then in response to the above quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
In what way?
In a sense all NFL systems are similar.
For me a similar scheme is one where the core concepts and verbiage are the same to the point where the name of the play in one system is either the same or very close to the name of the same play in the other system.
For example David Anderson came from Houston and was able to play right away because he spoke the language of our offense.
I don't think Green Bay and our offense share the same language.
Conceptually I see Green Bay's offense as 5-7 step drop vertical rhythm passing game heavy shotgun w/a focus that attacks sideline to sideline with downflied instride especially with crossers and posts that gain RAC yardage for the WRs; with a sprinkle under center offense with 3 TEs and muliple RBs.

I see our offense as a mix of boot-swap playaction passing and 3-5-7 step rhythm passing with a focus on zone beating in-breaking or stop routes that attacks down the center of the field.

.....But throughout your advocacy for Flynn you haven't mentioned anything about his skillset.
My point is that when you sign a QB you get their skillset not their production.

......I'm not predicting whether Flynn will be good/not good.
My point is that Flynn is no different then any other journeyman/second chance QB available (Jimmy Clausen, Chad Henne, Josh Johnson, Matt Moore, etc) and they all should be judged on their skillset not their production.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:40 PM   #355
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever View Post
You and several others completely misquoted me. I didn't say that Drew Brees, who was a 2nd round selection, and Kurt Warner, who was a free agent, didn't play in the Super Bowl. Anything other than a frachise QB either hit or miss as a said in my initial post.

I said nothing about the Redskins or their mess of quarterbacks under the Turner, Schottenheimer, Spurrier, Gibbs II, Zorn, and Shanahan regimes. I said nothing about that either. Again, you misquoted me.

I simply stated that the fact that during the last 7 Super Bowls, there has been a first round selection at quarterback that has played in the big game. Not necessarily won it but played in it. And there will be for the 8th straight Super Bowl one or two first round draft choices that will play in the Super Bowl in a few weeks.

So, most of the time, a first round draft choice playing quarterback is guaranteed success more so than a free agent QB or even a QB selected anywhere between the 2nd and 7th round of the draft.

Now, please quote me.
Gotcha.

I just don't see how first rounders are any sort of guarantee.

There are plenty of notable busts that show otherwise.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:46 PM   #356
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

Testy around here. It's offseason, I guess. We'll know soon enough.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:54 PM   #357
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

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Testy around here. It's offseason, I guess. We'll know soon enough.
Don't use that kind of potty language around here! This is a family forum!!!
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:43 PM   #358
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

RGIII is a game changer plus he brings excitement back to DC.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:50 PM   #359
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RGIII is a game changer plus he brings excitement back to DC.
He'd be the face of out once proud franchise.. we haven't had that in years

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Old 01-19-2012, 07:03 PM   #360
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Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
Probably not a great direct comparison to Flynn's situation, but I think his point was after that game Hanie was looked at as being a QB on the rise.
Kiper and McShay were referring to both him and Hoyer a lot during the pre-draft process last year as examples of late round QB's that could find starting jobs in the near future and fetch draft picks for their current teams. I think Flynn was also included in that discussion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
Testy around here. It's offseason, I guess. We'll know soon enough.
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