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I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

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Old 02-07-2012, 08:02 PM   #631
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

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Originally Posted by tc2deuce View Post
Originally Posted by 12thMan
Holding out for Bradford myself.

If --big IF--Peyton plays, he could land in Zona and that might put Kolb back on the market.

just what we need another Eagle QB on the decline
Um, no thank you. I don't even see him as a good back up, and never did. I just don't see the Cards as big a contender as others do and really don't know why Peyton would want to go there. Besides I'd think the Cards would stick it out one more year with Kolb since they need to show they were not idiots to make the trade with the Eagles.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:04 PM   #632
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

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Um, no thank you. I don't even see him as a good back up, and never did. I just don't see the Cards as big a contender as others do and really don't know why Peyton would want to go there. Besides I'd think the Cards would stick it out one more year with Kolb since they need to show they were not idiots to make the trade with the Eagles.
Using your logic if an upgrade is out there they should consider it, right?
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:11 PM   #633
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

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The Vikings already have Ponder and Webb, why are we talking about them taking a QB?
Um, my point was... I don't see RGIII falling to the Skins at #6 when he alluded to that. I simply was saying if your any one of those teams above us would you consider yourself set at QB and would have no interest in RGIII? because I can tell you the only team who shouldn't have any questions right now is the Colts because they still have Peyton. Presuming he's gone then even they might take RGIII over Luck we really don't know.

I personally can see all those teams thinking RGIII is an upgrade over their present QB's and "IF" he's the franchise QB half the fans here believe then common sense tells me other teams fans do also and quite possibly other teams owners and HC's. I just don't see why some of us seem to live in our own little bubbles like no one else is going to want RGIII or be interested in RGIII but us and then talk about how he's a franchise QB and he hasn't even played a down. If people can predict that he will be a franchise QB then I'm glad that the Rams, Vikes, Bucks, and Browns are not interested in him so we can atleast get our franchise QB of the future.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:17 PM   #634
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Um, my point was... I don't see RGIII falling to the Skins at #6 when he alluded to that. I simply was saying if your any one of those teams above us would you consider yourself set at QB and would have no interest in RGIII? because I can tell you the only team who shouldn't have any questions right now is the Colts because they still have Peyton. Presuming he's gone then even they might take RGIII over Luck we really don't know.

I personally can see all those teams thinking RGIII is an upgrade over their present QB's and "IF" he's the franchise QB half the fans here believe then common sense tells me other teams fans do also and quite possibly other teams owners and HC's. I just don't see why some of us seem to live in our own little bubbles like no one else is going to want RGIII or be interested in RGIII but us and then talk about how he's a franchise QB and he hasn't even played a down. If people can predict that he will be a franchise QB then I'm glad that the Rams, Vikes, Bucks, and Browns are not interested in him so we can atleast get our franchise QB of the future.
I think there's a decent chance of RGIII falling to #6, assuming nobody trades up. The Colts are definitely looking for a QB, and the Browns could be. The Vikings and Bucs aren't taking a QB. Neither are the Rams, unless they deal Bradford.
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Last edited by Mattyk; 02-07-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:18 PM   #635
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

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Using your logic if an upgrade is out there they should consider it, right?
We are considering it. So yes. The only teams I can see not considering it are the Panthers since they had the #1 last year and Cinci because Dalton played rather well.

But I'm not even talking about all teams. I'm not talking about GB, or Giants, or Patriots or any of the playoff teams. I'm simply talking about the 5 teams above us in this yrs draft and only a few behind us like Miami, Seattle, and possibly Dallas.

I wouldn't be suprised if the Colts picked RGIII, nor the Rams, Vikes, Bucks, or Browns. Why? because although a couple have drafted a QB last year... no way they pass up on a top 2 QB in a draft which would be better then what they have. possibly.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:41 PM   #636
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

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The question is: do you think RGIII is better then those QB's right now?
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Do I think Griffin is currently a better NFL QB? No.
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Originally Posted by SBXVII View Post
Why would a team trade away a franchise QB for RGIII if they already have one? they wouldn't, unless they are not franchise QB's.
This is circular logic that I don't follow.

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So I'm "assuming" your thinking the Rams will not trade Bradford, the Vikes wouldn't see RGIII as an upgrade over Ponder, the Bucks wouldn't see RGIII as an upgrade over Freeman, and the Browns wouldn't see RGIII as an upgrade over McCoy. Right?
I get the distinct feeling that in your haste to disagree with me that you aren't even reading my posts.

You have one part of your assumption correct in that I don't think the Rams,Vikes or Bucs will draft RGIII.
Whether or not they view RGIII as an upgrade isn't the question.
For one upgrade is a needlessly ambiguous term.
Teams judge QBs as prospects with grades and by tiers.
Lets say that all tier 1 QBs have franchise potential.
But even within that tier of potential franchise QBs there will be grades.
Imo a team doesn't replace a tier 1 franchise potential QB with another tier 1 potential franchise QB even if Griffin is an upgrade in terms of 'grade' as a prospect.

But I don't understand why you need to make assumptions anyway when I've stated my point very clearly and I'll restate it again here:

Imo a team that has a potential franchise QB doesn't draft another potential franchise QB just because of preference.
If those teams drafted another QB (Griffin) it means their entire organization is making a major paradigm shift in the direction of the entire team.

Quote:
thats essentially what your saying... those other QB's are franchise QB's and their respective teams will want them and RGIII will fall to the Redskins at #6
Close but your missing a major distinction: i'm not making the claim that those QBs are franchise (QBs except for Freeman) only that they have the potential to be; which is the same potential that Griffin may possess.

Quote:
and all I'm saying is it aint happening.[Griff falling to #6] I think several fans here see RGIII as an upgrade over Bradford to include me, an upgrade over Ponder, an upgrade over Freeman easily, an upgrade over McCoy. So I'd be shocked if RGIII simply fell to #6.
Unless you can predict the future, you meant to say you think its not gonna happen and it might not happen.
And to be clear my statement was this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
Call me crazy but I think the chances of Griff being available at 6 are reasonable..........I recall last year when everyone swore the Bills, Bengals, Cards and 49ers would take a QB in the1st and none did.
That's why I think there's a good chance Griff falls to us at 6.
Quote:
Do I think those other QB's can be franchise QB's? probably if they are in the right scheme and their talents used properly along with a few yrs of developement. But in this day and age of instant gratification I see no way the 4 teams above us simply say "no, were happy with what we got and can wait for our QB to become a franchise QB if they ever do."
But why would Griffin be any different?
Griffin may become a franchise QB if he's in the right scheme and his talents are used properly along with a few years of development just as the other QBs may, in fact those QB have a year or more of development headstart on him.
I get that you like Griffin, I like Griffin too as I've said repeatedly I think he's the best QB prospect in this draft but it doesn't make him any more of lock to become a franchise QB then Bradford, Ponder, McCoy and especially Freeman who imo is already the Buc's franchise QB.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:42 PM   #637
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

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The question is: do you think RGIII is better then those QB's right now? and your question is the exact question I'm trying to get you to. Why would a team trade away a franchise QB for RGIII if they already have one? they wouldn't, unless they are not franchise QB's.

So I'm "assuming" your thinking the Rams will not trade Bradford, the Vikes wouldn't see RGIII as an upgrade over Ponder, the Bucks wouldn't see RGIII as an upgrade over Freeman, and the Browns wouldn't see RGIII as an upgrade over McCoy. Right? thats essentially what your saying... those other QB's are franchise QB's and their respective teams will want them and RGIII will fall to the Redskins at #6. and all I'm saying is it aint happening. I think several fans here see RGIII as an upgrade over Bradford to include me, an upgrade over Ponder, an upgrade over Freeman easily, an upgrade over McCoy. So I'd be shocked if RGIII simply fell to #6.

Do I think those other QB's can be franchise QB's? probably if they are in the right scheme and their talents used properly along with a few yrs of developement. But in this day and age of instant gratification I see no way the 4 teams above us simply say "no, were happy with what we got and can wait for our QB to become a franchise QB if they ever do."
This is why the whole concept of a franchise quarterback is dumb. Winning organizations think in terms of percentages, points, and wins. They do not think in terms of franchise marketability of the quarterback position.

You always start by doing a film analysis of your own players. If you feel like the quarterback is limiting your offense, the only relative question is how many more estimated points would we be likely to score if you switch at that position.

So lets say that Robert Griffin's sack projection as a rookie on the Cleveland Browns is 7.73%. McCoy was sacked at a 6.5% (7.4% for his career) clip last year, so that's actually a downgrade. So then you need a certain number of air yard improvement from the QB position to offset the downgrade. You'd need to essentially project Robert Griffin to have Cam Newton's rookie year as a thrower. Then you have to consider what you are giving up to get Griffin. Can you get anything for McCoy in a trade?

These are important decisions that the Browns have to make, re: RG3. If they conclude that Greg Little is going to drop third down passes no matter who the quarterback is, and AYPA (air yards per attempt) is going to remain low when you have Little and Massaquoi as your receivers, then the problem you want to fix is not going to be fixed by Robert Griffin. How "franchisezy" he is will not factor into consideration.

The Redskins will have to do a similar analysis, though in their case, they know that they can't conclude that the status quo is viable. Still, Griffin is going to have a set value to the Redskins, and you can't go well over that value to acquire the player, otherwise, you're hurting your team.

I think the Redskins have reached the conclusion that Andrew Luck is really very valuable to them: he might be the difference in the careers of Leonard Hankerson, Fred Davis, Roy Helu, plus whoever else the Redskins might draft this year. I think they like Griffin a lot and would start him from day one if they can get him, but ultimately remember that the team who is going to get Robert Griffin is the team that overvalues him by the most.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:32 PM   #638
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

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I think there's a decent chance of RGIII falling to #6, assuming nobody trades up. The Colts are definitely looking for a QB, and the Browns could be. The Vikings and Bucs aren't taking a QB. Neither are the Rams, unless they deal Bradford.
I think if trades were disallowed then RGIII would fall to us...I strongly believe though that someone will trade up to get RGIII. If he is available at 6 it would be a shocker right?

Tripp is right...whoever ends up with him will very very likely be overpaying.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:39 PM   #639
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

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I hear ya got a QB spot open.

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PM: Ok u sold me, I have to tie ELI
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:45 AM   #640
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

Theismann: Redskins signing Manning would be “horrific idea” | ProFootballTalk
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:15 AM   #641
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

Well, that just solidifies the thought that signing Peyton Manning is the right thing to do for the Redskins!
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:17 AM   #642
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

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Well, that just solidifies the thought that signing Peyton Manning is the right thing to do for the Redskins!
Exactly what I was thinking.

How many times have we heard Joey blow smoke up our butts over other players he thought were so great, but now he doesn't want one of the best of all time?

Sign me up for Manning.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:20 AM   #643
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

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Exactly what I was thinking.

How many times have we heard Joey blow smoke up our butts over other players he thought were so great, but now he doesn't want one of the best of all time?

Sign me up for Manning.
Love Joe Theismann...if for anything, for pure entertainment value and of course being a part of the glory years with the Redskins...but yeah, he's a lame brain when it comes to evaluation of on-field talent.

I'm on the bandwagon with you, welcome Peyton Manning.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:20 AM   #644
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)



MS: You think you can win in DC?

PM: I'm Peyton F'ing Manning, what do you think?
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:44 AM   #645
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Re: I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

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MS: You think you can win in DC?

PM: I'm Peyton F'ing Manning, what do you think?
Speaking of this, Rich Tandler just posted this, which I completely agree with...

Rich Tandler
I've said this before but if Mike/Kyle Shanahan can't figure out a way to make things work with P. Manning both should be fired now.
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