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Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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View Poll Results: If you had to choose between the two...
Sign Peyton Manning 43 32.82%
Trade up for RGIII 88 67.18%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-11-2012, 07:37 PM   #226
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by biffle View Post
Yeah, you kind of did. None of those trades you mention have the trading up teams giving up as much as you have us doing, save for the Leaf fiasco.

If next year's first was considered to have the value of this year's second, then we would be giving up more than the full price of the value chart without giving up the two 4ths you include. And every organiztion worth anything realizes a future 1st is worth more than that.

The other two were trades where they had 0 leverage so the pick was devalued. Now you have a situation where there are multiple teams wanting the pick, and without the huge contracts that rookies used to get. That pick has now become more valuable than it was prior.


2012 -1st
2012-3rd
2012- 4th

2013-1st
2013- 5th
----------------------------
2012-1st
2012-2nd

2013- 1st
2013- 4th
---------------

My scenario was a estimation, and it wasn't overblown that much even though you think it is. I can see several packages like the one above given for that pick.

The Panther's traded their 2010 1st rounder for a 2009 2nd round pick (43rd) worth 470 points.

You want to know why it cost the Chargers so much to move from #3 to #2? It was because of the person at stake. At the time, Leaf was perceived to have a higher ceiling than Peyton.

Fast forward to now. RGIII is also being touted as a top prospect along with Luck and is said to have a higher ceiling. He's obviously good enough for Irsay to mention both him and Luck.

Put that #2 up for bid, and the price could sky rocket if teams start a bidding war. If you want to argue about me adding an additional 4th or 5th to the chart, than by all means haggle away. It was a rough estimate, but it was enough to show that we dont' want to give up that much for one guy.
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:40 PM   #227
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by bertoskins2 View Post
Get peyton manning, trade down to get 2 solid linemen to protect him, get the next tom brady on the later rounds. win superbowl as early as next year and save Mike shanahans Job.
And then sit back and pop the bubbly! Why haven't we thought of this before?
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:40 PM   #228
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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3,000+ posts in just over a year.

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No, social networking doesn't count.
Matty, Smoot, I think he's talking to you two.




C'mon guy? Insults? Dude, most of my posts come at work. Yes, I get paid to post on the Warpath and it comes compliments of the taxpayers. Does that make you mad bro? :cool-smil
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:41 PM   #229
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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That's cool. I don't have a hard argument. I'm just more optimistic than you are than one of those guys could inspire a trade-down scenario for us.

I'm also more optimistic than many people here that RGIII will be there at 6.
I would love to be proved wrong and get RG3 at 6
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:47 PM   #230
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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That's cool. I don't have a hard argument. I'm just more optimistic than you are than one of those guys could inspire a trade-down scenario for us.

I'm also more optimistic than many people here that RGIII will be there at 6.
I don't think I'm as optimistic as you are about RG3 being there at 6, but I think it's a believable scenario. And if it does happen, we better take him. *shakes fist*. But if the FO used that potential scenario to trade down and get more picks to help Peyton out, I'd be comfortable with that too. But if we had any other FA qb instead of Peyton and RG3 fell to us, well then I'd definitely want us to take him.
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:51 PM   #231
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Man this is a tough decision. I say pick up Peyton if he is close to 100%. The Skins can't pass up the once in a lifetime chance. I like RgIII if he falls to six. It's not a wise move to give up that many picks for one player. We have way too many holes to fill.
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:53 PM   #232
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

[quote=celts32;884397]
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Originally Posted by SBXVII View Post

Okay so we will continue on the wait for a QB to fall from the sky plan. Everything is a risk...there are no guarantees...but the only thing thats certain is that we are not winning until we find a QB.

To answer your question...if the Rams don't want to trade and want to draft RG3 for themselves then I would do 3 cartwheels and offer them the #6 pick for Bradford.
No, rumor last week was the Shanahans were not really infatuated with any of the QB's this year other then Luck and he will be taken by the Colts. They were interested in Barkely but as we all know he stayed in college.

Now there are several ways to build a team and a couple of the most common is to take a QB, then build around him. If this was the Shanahan's first year I'd argue for this method. However there is another way in which the team builds the OL and gets all the supporting cast then pulls the trigger on a QB who will not have as big a learning curve because the supporting cast is already in place. Since we've already waisted 2 years collecting talent and not getting our "franchise" QB, on top of that the coaching staff not infatuated with the QB class, I could see this team taking another year to collect their weapons and next year going all in for Barkely.

and no, if the Rams don't think he's franchise material why would we want him? clearly he was a high draft pick that they couldn't get to work out. So why do we want to waist our time with him. Unless you want to go through another Grossman or Beck situation.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:03 PM   #233
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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He does? He's a pocket passer with the ability to scramble and has Michael Vick type speed. Cam Newton runs a lot, Early Michael Vick runs a lot. RGIII doesn't play like either one of them really. Since when is being able to evade pressure a knock.
While I think RGIII is leap years above Cam and Vick in terms of where they were as a prospect, he does still run a bit. He averaged 13 attempts per game but only had a paltry 3.9 average. However, he put up over 4,200 yard passing in 13 games as well. That's incredible. Were they allowed to continue playing during halftime or something?...lol


I love the kid though. He's smart (best part I like), he's charismatic, he's athletic, he's accurate, he's got arm strength.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:10 PM   #234
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Lets look at a different view, what if both QB RG3 and peyton fails, this will be the consequence. in RG3 we will loose future draft picks. in peyton, we will only loose dan's money, and will keep both our picks this year (probably a stud OL or WR) and next year (another QB prospect in Barkley)
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:10 PM   #235
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

You playing the race card bro?


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Old 02-11-2012, 08:11 PM   #236
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Hahaha.... you got me.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:19 PM   #237
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by celts32 View Post
I would love to be proved wrong and get RG3 at 6
Don't get me wrong, I think that RGIII is dynamite and I would love to get him. But I think these factors may make him fall to #6:

1) Footwork/mechanics concerns
2) Durability concerns moving to the next level
3) There are real studs at other positions and teams may prefer to have the best player at position X rather than the second best QB
4) The trade-up price for QB hungry teams below us will be very steep, perhaps too steep to leapfrog us
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:39 PM   #238
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
The other two were trades where they had 0 leverage so the pick was devalued. Now you have a situation where there are multiple teams wanting the pick, and without the huge contracts that rookies used to get. That pick has now become more valuable than it was prior.


2012 -1st
2012-3rd
2012- 4th

2013-1st
2013- 5th
----------------------------
2012-1st
2012-2nd

2013- 1st
2013- 4th
---------------

My scenario was a estimation, and it wasn't overblown that much even though you think it is. I can see several packages like the one above given for that pick.

The Panther's traded their 2010 1st rounder for a 2009 2nd round pick (43rd) worth 470 points.

You want to know why it cost the Chargers so much to move from #3 to #2? It was because of the person at stake. At the time, Leaf was perceived to have a higher ceiling than Peyton.

Fast forward to now. RGIII is also being touted as a top prospect along with Luck and is said to have a higher ceiling. He's obviously good enough for Irsay to mention both him and Luck.

Put that #2 up for bid, and the price could sky rocket if teams start a bidding war. If you want to argue about me adding an additional 4th or 5th to the chart, than by all means haggle away. It was a rough estimate, but it was enough to show that we dont' want to give up that much for one guy.
To be clear on what this was- I said I thought you were guessing high on the trade price, you said it wasn't a guess, it was the cost based on previous trades and the value chart. And now, several posts later, we get that you are guessing that it will be more than recent trades and the value chart. Fine, it is your guess, nothing wrong with that. Just wish it didn't take so long to get back there.

John Clayton was just on the radio and his guess was that it might cost the Redskins two firsts and another pick for Griffin (after he talked about how much smarter a move he thought that was than signing Manning, and how he felt Griffin was a perfect fit for Shanahan's offense).
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:04 PM   #239
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by biffle View Post
John Clayton was just on the radio and his guess was that it might cost the Redskins two firsts and another pick for Griffin (after he talked about how much smarter a move he thought that was than signing Manning, and how he felt Griffin was a perfect fit for Shanahan's offense).
I guess that settles it. John Clayton knows what's best for the Redskins even though he hasn't a clue about our offense or any of the characteristics that Mike looks for in a QB.


As far as the other stuff, I'm not going any further with you. You want to argue just for the sake of arguing and you are saying things I said that aren't there (much like you did with 30gut) so I'll step out of this horse race right here and now.
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:15 PM   #240
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
As far as the other stuff, I'm not going any further with you. You want to argue just for the sake of arguing and you are saying things I said that aren't there (much like you did with 30gut) so I'll step out of this horse race right here and now.
LOL. Nice try. I am not trying to argue, in fact I just made an attempt to end the discussion fairly.

You said you weren't guessing at the cost, you referred me to the value chart and recent trades, which in the post right above this one you explain why you're guessing it will cost more than that. Go ahead and run away from your own words, but all you had to do was to admit that you were guessing like everyone else and leave the superiority complex out of your posts.

As for the 30gut thing earlier, I made an attempt to explain to him how he was completely misusing a statistic, which he failed to understand. Given the nature of this discussion, I don't know whether you personally lack the intelligence to understand it, or are willfully misrepresenting it. Neither would surprise me.
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