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Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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View Poll Results: If you had to choose between the two...
Sign Peyton Manning 43 32.82%
Trade up for RGIII 88 67.18%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-12-2012, 03:40 PM   #316
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
And to this point, this line of thinking could not possibly be more shortsighted. You cannot make a QB decision like this in a vacuum. The fact of the matter is that you're not just talking about Griffin vs Manning, as someone else pointed out way earlier in this thread, you're talking about:

Manning + retaining 6 overall + retaining whatever other picks it would take to trade up for Griffin + the ability to spend 3 years finding a QB of the future

vs

Griffin

Again, I'm leaving cap room out of the equation because we're nowhere near the limit. It's not even a constraint for the Redskins.

If you ignore the downstream impact of making each move then you're not really managing the team, it's more of a fantasy football approach.
This is kind of how I'm thinking. Sure, I wish somehow we magically have RGIII fall to us, but if it doesn't happen, we can keep years of draft picks and still be competitive. I think too many people want to just tank for years in the interest of getting younger. I'd LOVE to have RGIII or Luck, but there have been some "sure things" in the past that really destroyed high picks (and future picks).

I've said in another thread that on the surface we seem like a patient fan base but we surely would run Shanahan out of town if we drafted some young QB and went 6-10 (while showing promise).

Then the cycle begins all over again with a new coach, who might want defense to go back to the 4-3, might want a QB better for "their" system and around and around we go.

I'd love to get RGIII or Luck, but I'm totally fine with Manning as an option for a couple of years if he's healthy.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:42 PM   #317
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Depending on what it takes to move up for Luck, I'd be willing to trade up for him. If Polian was still the GM for the Colts it'd probably would have been easier to make that deal. Now? I know it's still being discussed but the reality is that a trade to #1 is not likely.

My opinion is that the gap between Luck and the 2nd best QB in this draft (which most would say is RG3) is significantly great than that of say RG3 and Ryan Tannehill. Again, that's just my opinion. But that's one big reason why I wouldn't trade up for RG3.
I think that you and I are the only ones here who see things that way.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:44 PM   #318
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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I think that you and I are the only ones here who see things that way.
Count me in that group. I don' know much about Tannehill, but I do see a big gap between Luck and Griffin.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:11 PM   #319
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Yeah I think your first problem is that you seem to think Robert Griffin is God's gift. I don't see that. I see that in Luck, but not Griffin.
I don't think anyone is "God's gift" and I'm not sure what the point of a lame comment like that is. If you don't like him as a prospect, that's fine. I do, as do plenty of other people. We can disagree, but rest assured, I don't need you to tell me what "my problem" is.

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You also seem to think Peyton is in some sort of decline. That's the biggest source of disagreement between the two of us.
Manning's passer ratings by age:
28- 121.1
29- 104.1
30- 101
31- 98
32- 95
33- 99.9
34- 91.9

A pretty clear downward trajectory there, and that number for his last year would have been good for only 7th best in the NFC this season.

People decline physically as they get older. It's not exactly controversial to say that. And taking a year off and having multiple surgeries aren't exactly elixirs for that.

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As for cap space, no, not even close. There are not THAT many good ways to spend $35 - $45 friggin million in cap space. Nobody makes that many free agent acquisitions and lives to tell the tale. See: Cerrato, Vinny.
Ah, so once there was a terrible GM who didn't know what he was doing, so all Free Agent spending is bad. Brilliant. Does that also apply to Gibbs' Washington-Springs-Griffin-Daniels-Moss spending spree that was the basis for two playoff runs? How about the Patriots first Super Bowl win after signing about 20 FAs? There are smart ways and dumb ways to spend money, just like there are dumb ways to do most anything.

For the record, why don't you look at GTripp's breakdown of our cap space. People keep throwing these numbers around and thinking that we are going to have trouble figuring out what to do with all the cap space. Once we re-sign our own and our draft picks, that space turns into a much more pedestrian number.

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And yes, in the end Griffin is a dice roll.
Thank goodness we don't have a FO that thinks of things so simplistically.

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People have thought extremely highly of a lot of quarterbacks. Mark Sanchez and Matt Ryan were both extremely productive, highly regarded, and high character guys. One can't muster anything better than mediocre production, and the other disappears in road games and come playoff time. You just don't know.
Yeah, I'll take Ryan and his future any day, thank you.

Sanchez had only one year of starting in college, which is a huge red flag. He also had an arrest on his record, and other maturity questions.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:35 PM   #320
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

I agree that RGIII is a dice roll IF we trade up for him. If he falls to us at six, that's a very appropriate place for a highly regarded QB to go. Every year there's someone like that.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:39 PM   #321
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Funny cause I'm beginning to think the Colts possibly take RGIII instead based off of maybe what the new OC is going to want to do and what his scheme calls for. RGIII is definitely more mobile then Luck.
People say that, but is that really true? The rushing stats between the two are fairly similar. RGIII ran more than Luck who is definitely more of a pocket passer, but in one year, Luck had a far higher rushing average (with a decent sample size). The very few times I watched the two, neither were very "shifty", but Luck seemed to have more of a burst.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:46 PM   #322
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by biffle View Post
I don't think anyone is "God's gift" and I'm not sure what the point of a lame comment like that is. If you don't like him as a prospect, that's fine. I do, as do plenty of other people. We can disagree, but rest assured, I don't need you to tell me what "my problem" is.



Manning's passer ratings by age:
28- 121.1
29- 104.1
30- 101
31- 98
32- 95
33- 99.9
34- 91.9

A pretty clear downward trajectory there, and that number for his last year would have been good for only 7th best in the NFC this season.

People decline physically as they get older. It's not exactly controversial to say that. And taking a year off and having multiple surgeries aren't exactly elixirs for that.



Ah, so once there was a terrible GM who didn't know what he was doing, so all Free Agent spending is bad. Brilliant. Does that also apply to Gibbs' Washington-Springs-Griffin-Daniels-Moss spending spree that was the basis for two playoff runs? How about the Patriots first Super Bowl win after signing about 20 FAs? There are smart ways and dumb ways to spend money, just like there are dumb ways to do most anything.

For the record, why don't you look at GTripp's breakdown of our cap space. People keep throwing these numbers around and thinking that we are going to have trouble figuring out what to do with all the cap space. Once we re-sign our own and our draft picks, that space turns into a much more pedestrian number.



Thank goodness we don't have a FO that thinks of things so simplistically.



Yeah, I'll take Ryan and his future any day, thank you.

Sanchez had only one year of starting in college, which is a huge red flag. He also had an arrest on his record, and other maturity questions.

Those are numbers we have never seen in D.C..
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:47 PM   #323
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Call for Redskins to sign Manning
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:52 PM   #324
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Those are numbers we have never seen in D.C..
Even if he had a "steep decline" to 85, that's still pretty damn good. I just want a QB that doesn't force balls and either can a) throw the ball away or b) have enough strength to hang onto it if they're getting sacked.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:53 PM   #325
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Those are numbers we have never seen in D.C..
No, but there's really no reason to believe we'd see them in DC from Manning, either.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:56 PM   #326
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Even if he had a "steep decline" to 85, that's still pretty damn good.
An 85 passer rating is basically what Campbell was doing here.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:57 PM   #327
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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No, but there's really no reason to believe we'd see them in DC from Manning, either.
Why not? Let's assume that Peyton comes back healthy, maybe limited strength-wise, but still have that brain and leadership. We have a very similar receiving corps to the Colts. System might be very different, but I'd imagine Manning would have just a touch of autonomy in this offense.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:58 PM   #328
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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An 85 passer rating is basically what Campbell was doing here.
I'd have been fine if he stayed too. He was behind what could have been considered one of the worst lines in Redskins history. All I ask for is an improvement in QB play. If it's Peyton, that's an improvement, even if he drops off. If it's Orton, Flynn, Hoyer, me, I don't care... my main thing is that I don't want to gift up draft picks.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:07 PM   #329
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Why not? Let's assume that Peyton comes back healthy, maybe limited strength-wise, but still have that brain and leadership. We have a very similar receiving corps to the Colts. System might be very different, but I'd imagine Manning would have just a touch of autonomy in this offense.
Why would you assume a player is going to be as good at 36 as he was at 34? And after a year off, multiple surgeries and a change of teams? And I wouldn't agree that our receivers, or pass protection for that matter, are as good as he had in Indy.

But even if he were to get back to that level, my point was more aimed at the totality of his numbers. As much as I think it is unwise to bet on him being as good as he was before the year off, I would say it's doubly or triply foolish to think he's going to go back to what he was in his prime years.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:11 PM   #330
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Why would you assume a player is going to be as good at 36 as he was at 34? And after a year off, multiple surgeries and a change of teams? And I wouldn't agree that our receivers, or pass protection for that matter, are as good as he had in Indy.

But even if he were to get back to that level, my point was more aimed at the totality of his numbers. As much as I think it is unwise to bet on him being as good as he was before the year off, I would say it's doubly or triply foolish to think he's going to go back to what he was in his prime years.
I don't assume that. I DO assume he would be a significant upgrade from what we currently have AND that upgrade would come without giving up draft picks. If he's totally cleared medically to play, I would absolutely bet on him being significantly better than what we currently at QB. Manning from the past? Probably not. I just know that he'd be better than Flynn, Orton or whoever else we can pick up in FA.

NOW, if RGIII falls to us, that's who I want.
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