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Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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View Poll Results: If you had to choose between the two...
Sign Peyton Manning 43 32.82%
Trade up for RGIII 88 67.18%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-12-2012, 05:15 PM   #331
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection View Post
I don't assume that. I DO assume he would be a significant upgrade from what we currently have AND that upgrade would come without giving up draft picks. If he's totally cleared medically to play, I would absolutely bet on him being significantly better than what we currently at QB. Manning from the past? Probably not. I just know that he'd be better than Flynn, Orton or whoever else we can pick up in FA.

NOW, if RGIII falls to us, that's who I want.
I was just answering your question of why I didn't think there was any reason to expect to see Manning's old numbers in DC.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:19 PM   #332
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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I don't consider that a good read at all, frankly. And not just because I disagree with her. There are multiple posters in this thread who I couldn't disagree with more who've put together much more salient arguments than she did.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:31 PM   #333
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:39 PM   #334
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by Mahons21 View Post
I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.
Totally agree with your last paragraph

As for ESPN's TQBR, they did spend several years working on it before releasing it and you can see here that Manning is at the top in 2008 and 2009

NFL -- Peyton Manning has top two QBR seasons - ESPN

And welcome to the board...I hear you've been talking about us over on other boards
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:42 PM   #335
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Manning is clearly on the down side of his carreer. With a neck fusion he is affected for life with limited mobility in his neck area. He was never a drop back passer with Indy most of his time was spent in shotgun (he would step up to make calls but would settle into shotgun formation). If he were to come to the skins he would need the offense taylored to his liking.

The Shanahans currently have no audibles, no two minute offense, and micromanage all aspects of the offense, not sure if that was due to lack of confidence in Grossman/Beck or just their MO. However that would all have to be changed for Manning. Not sure if they are willing to do that for a player with a deficiancy, on the down side of his carreer that doesn't fit the system.

RGIII is young and is probably more coachable that most of the qbs that have been here since the Shannys came in. Also, RGII is more than capable of learning how the drop back in a pro style offense, if he hasn't already learned, all prospects have private coaching proir to the combine.

Barkley please don't go there, when was the last time a USC qb came out that actually had a quality carreer?
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:47 PM   #336
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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An 85 passer rating is basically what Campbell was doing here.
Anything Campbell did for the good was done in garbage time after the game was essentially over.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:49 PM   #337
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Totally agree with your last paragraph

As for ESPN's TQBR, they did spend several years working on it before releasing it and you can see here that Manning is at the top in 2008 and 2009
Wow, didn't know they did that, no surprise about Manning though.

Quote:
And welcome to the board...I hear you've been talking about us over on other boards
Hah, I sure was, I think I quoted a post of yours specifically. Seems like a lot more valuable information to be found here, with much less filtering, so I figured I might as well just join up.
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:03 PM   #338
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by whistler View Post
It's not as simple as asking to choose between RGIII and Peyton. The real question is which package would you rather have?


Which would you choose?


Package A:

1) RGIII


Package B:
1) Peyton Manning (while using 3rd rounder to draft Kirk Cousins)
2) Reily Reiff -OT (1st)
3) Alfonso Denard-CB (2nd)
4) Lucas Nix -OG (4th)

5) Manti Te'o - ILB (2013 1st)
6) Orhian Johnson -SS (2013 4th)

This is not an acccurate assesment of what is needed to get RGIII. If RGIII is picked by the skins they could still have their remaining picks this year under one scenario.
1) RGIII
2)2012 2nd rounder
3)2012 3rd rounder
4)2012 4th rounder
5)2012 5th rounder
6)2012 6th rounder
Would all still be available for the skins

They would probably have to surrender the 2012 1st, 2013 1st, and possibly Orakpo to make this happen, But in no way would they have to surrender the whole 2012 draft to get RGIII, that is ridiculous. No one is considering that Orakpo has possibly peaked and is very tradable at this point. Jeff Fisher would probably see this deal as 3 first rounders for the no.2 pick this year. Very doable.
I get the excitement of the draft, I do, but why waste your time putting this stuff together? I mean really, not on 2012 projections but 2013 as well. SMH
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:04 PM   #339
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by Mahons21 View Post
I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.
Football Outsiders' stats show the exact same trend line for Manning as Passer Rating- consistently moving downwarrd, with a bit fo an uptick in 09.
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:16 PM   #340
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

To me it's like Schneed said, get PM who will not effect our draft at all and will not be a very big CAP hit.

You still want to waist draft picks and move up for RGIII good for you guys.

Me... I'd prefer to trade back for more picks which means more players which means more chances on hitting good players. Getting younger and faster and healthier at all positions is key. If RGIII falls to number 6 then I'm in for taking him but I'm not for mortgaging the teams future for one player. He's not the only player to come out of the draft with similar skill sets ie; Newton last year. Next year it will probably be the LSU kid who decided to stay in college.
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:17 PM   #341
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice


Signing Peyton Manning doesn't preclude the team from acquiring a potential 'franchise' QB.

It simply reduces the urgency to acquire a QB of the future this draft, thus allowing the top draft choices to go directly towards adding young talent to the roster. (OL, WR etc)

It allows the team the choice to develop and groom a QB of the future at their pace.
Sure they could draft a QB with the 6th pick or in the second round or 3rd round.
But I think the team would be better served adding talent for Peyton with this draft class top picks.
Then they could draft a mid-round QB prospect or they could draft a 1st round QB in future drafts if neccesary.

Now if they choose to draft a QB in a future draft while Peyton is under the center we likely/hopefully won't be picking in the top half of the draft.
But we all now that franchise can come from anywhere in the draft they're not relegated exclusively to the top 10 picks.

A recent example is Joe Flacco who was drafted with 18th pick in the same draft where Matt Ryan was drafted with the 3rd pick.
I think its fair to say that both QBs have proven themselves their respectives team's 'franchise' QBs?

The Ravens moved up from the 26th pick to the 18th pick by giving up a only a 3rd round pick and a 6th round pick.
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Last edited by 30gut; 02-12-2012 at 06:59 PM. Reason: thanks los panda; added an image
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:42 PM   #342
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.
Or it could be that he has less he can afford to lose in physical skill, and less to gain in experience, which could make his decline steeper. In baseball, speed players lose their value less as they age than other players.

In fact, go look at the careers of the 10 QBs Pro Football Reference has as most similar to Manning. It's only the mobile ones- Young, Elway, Favre, Staubach- who didn't become shells of themselves after the age of 35. Montana, who was always reasonably, but not overly, athletic, was still good for a couple of years, but definitely off his peak year performances.
The other 5 on the list (Unitas, Marino, Anderson, Kelly, Fouts), who seem to all fit exactly the profile you laid out- not over athletic, not earth-shattering physical skills, but cerebral and prepared- all would have done well to retire by the age Manning is now.
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:45 PM   #343
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

create a custom jersey at nflshop, name: manning, number: 18, if you want to get an idea
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:47 PM   #344
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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I get the excitement of the draft, I do, but why waste your time putting this stuff together? I mean really, not on 2012 projections but 2013 as well. SMH
it can be fun to use your imagination
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Old 02-12-2012, 07:00 PM   #345
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Griffin without doubt. Do whatever it takes. Young, athletic, throws a pretty long ball and best of all will bring excitement and invigorate the fanbase
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