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Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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View Poll Results: If you had to choose between the two...
Sign Peyton Manning 43 32.82%
Trade up for RGIII 88 67.18%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-12-2012, 10:39 PM   #376
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

2012 NFL Mock Draft: First Round Predictions and Analysis | Bleacher Report

He's saying it's only going to cost this year's first and third and next year's first. Don't see how that happens with Cleveland's picks.
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Old 02-12-2012, 10:45 PM   #377
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by 44Deezel View Post
2012 NFL Mock Draft: First Round Predictions and Analysis | Bleacher Report

He's saying it's only going to cost this year's first and third and next year's first. Don't see how that happens with Cleveland's picks.
It will take at least 2 firsts and a 2nd...but probably more
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Old 02-12-2012, 10:52 PM   #378
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Why is RG3 considered such a sure-fire prospect, I keep reading posts (albeit many of them from ES) that mention RG3 and Luck in the same breathe, as if these guys aren't that far apart.

I love RG3 and he's exciting to watch, but I'm not about to glance over the fact that he comes from a spread offense. RG3 has little to no practice in going through progressions/making post-snap reads. This may be me being a little tough on him, but I see a QB that stares down one side of the field, waits until a man gets open and if he doesn't feel a man is going to get open he takes off from the pocket running.

That doesn't sound like the type of football that would translate well to the NFL. Could it? Certainly, and it has before. But I can't see why he's consider a sure-fire pick.

RG3's floor in my opinion is a bust, he could literally flop out of the NFL. While Luck's on the other hand is probably that of an average to above average QB. So long as Luck stays healthy I expect him to be a starting QB his entire career, I can't say the same for RG3.

I may just be preaching to the choir, but if anyone out there is of the mind-set that RG3 should be uttered in the same breathe as Luck, or believes he's a sure-fire prospect, I would like to hear the reasoning why.
I'm not going to really answer your question here I don't think...but I'm of the opinion, and this may sound crazy, that in many ways Luck is severely underrated...underappreciated...whatever the right word is. He's not an electrifying dazzling player but he just gets it done and he does it seemingly so effortlessly that when you put his highlights against someone as electrifying as RG3 can be, then the admiration for RG3 skyrockets.

It's kind of like there was a time when everyone loved the dazzling shortstop abilities of Ozzie Smith as he dove and flipped everywhere, but no one really appreciated that Cal Ripken just knew where to be so he wouldn't necessarily have to dive everywhere
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Old 02-12-2012, 10:59 PM   #379
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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2012 NFL Mock Draft: First Round Predictions and Analysis | Bleacher Report

He's saying it's only going to cost this year's first and third and next year's first. Don't see how that happens with Cleveland's picks.

Mike Shanahan and Jeff Fisher go way back. They'll work it out because they are former members on the 49ers coaching staff so they've known each other for years and years. Even if the Browns have more ammunition, it doesn't mean the Rams will accept it. What does it matter if Cleveland has two first round picks this year? The Rams can get a first rounder from the Redskins this year and next year. And next year's pick can be higher than a 19th pick depending on how the Redskins finish. The compensation for the 2nd overall selection is just about the same. Even if the Rams take the Browns pick, how much is the 19th overall pick really worth in conjunction with the 4th overall pick really worth?

Shanahan and Fisher will iron out a deal if they haven't done so already.

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Old 02-12-2012, 11:15 PM   #380
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Mike Shanahan and Jeff Fisher go way back. They'll work it out because they are former members on the 49ers coaching staff so they've known each other for years and years. Even if the Browns have more ammunition, it doesn't mean the Rams will accept it. What does it matter if Cleveland has two first round picks this year? The Rams can get a first rounder from the Redskins this year and next year. And next year's pick can be higher than a 19th pick depending on how the Redskins finish. The compensation for the 2nd overall selection is just about the same. Even if the Rams take the Browns pick, how much is the 19th overall pick really worth in conjunction with the 4th overall pick really worth?

Shanahan and Fisher will iron out a deal if they haven't done so already.
Cleveland could throw in next year's first. That still puts us a first round pick behind them. I don't buy that Fisher makes the deal because him and Shanny are boys. I'd park RGIII in the AFC and take Cleveland for all they got
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:34 PM   #381
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

And Holmgren and Shanahan were on the Niners staff together so who's to say they won't work out a deal?
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:35 PM   #382
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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I may just be preaching to the choir, but if anyone out there is of the mind-set that RG3 should be uttered in the same breathe as Luck, or believes he's a sure-fire prospect, I would like to hear the reasoning why.
This topic could fill an entire thread of its own.
But without being long-winded and getting into a specific breakdown of each of their skillsets.
In sum: for me when I try to separate the QB from the scheme and surrounding talent, Griffin would grade out higher in more areas then Luck.

Griffin's superlatives are innate and I personally place more value on a QBs innate abilities then coaching/scheme derived abilities.
And imo many of Luck perceived superlatives are coachable.
I believe that most prospects have the best coaching of their lives ahead of them.
But Luck as a product of outstanding QB coaching/system (Harbaugh)+his own above average talent is closer to reaching his potential then Griffin.

BTW-welcome to the forum
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:38 PM   #383
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Cleveland could throw in next year's first. That still puts us a first round pick behind them. I don't buy that Fisher makes the deal because him and Shanny are boys. I'd park RGIII in the AFC and take Cleveland for all they got
Well, if that's the case then we as Redskin fans better hope that Mike Holmgren is sold on Colt McCoy and he's trying to aid him in getting him weapons at receiver. Despite McCoy's on field struggles, he's still a very young quarterback and if the Browns gave up on him after only two seasons would be unfortunate. Even though they can outbid us for RG3, they very well may not. The Browns troubles on offense wasn't only with the quarterback. The running game, the receivers had struggled so everything doesn't fall on McCoy. For them to draft Robert Griffin III will not do anything for their offense. They must build around the QB they have already. In addition, Holmgren already stated that competition would be brought in for McCoy this offseason. That would mean that the don't attend to draft a QB high, but maybe draft Weeden, Foles or some other rookie QB or maybe sign a veteran QB through free agency to compete with McCoy to help improve his game.


So maybe, just maybe, RG3 will fall to the sixth pick.

Last edited by REDSKINS4ever; 02-12-2012 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:44 PM   #384
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Me... I'd prefer to trade back for more picks which means more players which means more chances on hitting good players. Getting younger and faster and healthier at all positions is key. If RGIII falls to number 6 then I'm in for taking him but I'm not for mortgaging the teams future for one player. He's not the only player to come out of the draft with similar skill sets ie; Newton last year. Next year it will probably be the LSU kid who decided to stay in college.
Very well stated SBXVII! I don't want a PM with a fused neck and a noodle arm. I don't want to trade up either. The poll is skewed. It does not allow for us to trade back like we did for Kerrigan, and net more picks. It also assumes that we would have to trade up for RGIII or Luck. There are no givens, but there are general trends. Any mock over on HailRedskins.com can tell you approximately where a player may be taken. Some mocks actually have multiple rounds or the entire draft.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:45 PM   #385
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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This topic could fill an entire thread of its own.
But without being long-winded and getting into a specific breakdown of each of their skillsets.
In sum: for me when I try to separate the QB from the scheme and surrounding talent, Griffin would grade out higher in more areas then Luck.
I agree with this, however doesn't Cam newton grade out higher in more areas than Manning in his prime? To be accurate I believe you would have to grade each aspect of their games on a scale, and then add the grades up to see who has a higher score.


Quote:
Griffin's superlatives are innate and I personally place more value on a QBs innate abilities then coaching/scheme derived abilities.
And imo many of Luck perceived superlatives are coachable.
I believe that most prospects have the best coaching of their lives ahead of them.
But Luck as a product of outstanding QB coaching/system (Harbaugh)+his own above average talent is closer to reaching his potential then Griffin.
Fair enough, thanks for offering your opinion.


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BTW-welcome to the forum
Appreciate it, everyone around here has been very welcoming and the wealth of football knowledge that can be learned on this website is fully on display.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:51 PM   #386
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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No, those numbers represent a consistent decline, with one outlier year. Because they aren't huge doesn't mean they are not happening. He has been slowly declining thru his 30s, which is hardly shocking.
Those declines you're observing are not only not huge, they're statistically insignificant.

And one outlier year? Now you're just ignoring pertinent facts. You glossed over the opportunity cost of acquiring RGIII, expressing preference for evaluating the moves in a vacuum. And now you're glossing over the injury Manning had that season.

If Peyton Manning wants to physically decline like John Elway did after age 35, sure would be fine by me. I wouldn't mind seeing him decline his way into two Super Bowls like Elway did.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:12 AM   #387
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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I agree with this, however doesn't Cam newton grade out higher in more areas than Manning in his prime? To be accurate I believe you would have to grade each aspect of their games on a scale, and then add the grades up to see who has a higher score.
When Peyton was a QB prospect I didn't follow QB play closely enough to render an opinion.
But, Cam does grade out very high for me higher then both Griffin and Luck.
I agree about the scale, but don't you rememeber? That's how we did it last year.
The closer look series of threads that ended with group eval/rankings.

Oh, btw I'm DG on extremeskins.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:48 AM   #388
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Probably already answered but I think you have to actually "watch" the team to determine their situation. What I mean is Luck was probably asked to sit in the pocket and deliver the ball but was flushed due to a mediocre OL and yes he would have a lot of yardage because of this. RGIII probably had a whole offense designed around him where if he doesn't see anything down field with in a few seconds he would just take off and run. As an example I'd say a young Vick vs. a young anyone else with a bad OL. lol.
Mediocore?!? Their OLine has 2 potential first rounders this year at LT and RG in Martin and DeCastro, and supposedly their RT, C, and LG (who are experienced juniors and sophmores) are projected to go high, even as high as DeCastro and Martin.

One knock on Luck is that he was good because he had a Great OL.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:08 AM   #389
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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When Peyton was a QB prospect I didn't follow QB play closely enough to render an opinion.
But, Cam does grade out very high for me higher then both Griffin and Luck.
I agree about the scale, but don't you rememeber? That's how we did it last year.
The closer look series of threads that ended with group eval/rankings.
Ya I remember them for sure, one of the few worth-while threads on ES. I was thinking about doing one with Tannehill, his NW cut-up is online, but I haven't found any others.

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Old 02-13-2012, 01:21 AM   #390
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Those declines you're observing are not only not huge, they're statistically insignificant.

And one outlier year? Now you're just ignoring pertinent facts. You glossed over the opportunity cost of acquiring RGIII, expressing preference for evaluating the moves in a vacuum. And now you're glossing over the injury Manning had that season.

If Peyton Manning wants to physically decline like John Elway did after age 35, sure would be fine by me. I wouldn't mind seeing him decline his way into two Super Bowls like Elway did.
Wow. You're not even trying anymore.

Not much point in continuing this. Have a good one.
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