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Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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View Poll Results: If you had to choose between the two...
Sign Peyton Manning 43 32.82%
Trade up for RGIII 88 67.18%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-10-2012, 11:32 PM   #61
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by biffle View Post
Oh, in that case...package A, thank you.

Apart from the fact that you are guessing very high at the trade up cost, being overly optimistic in where Denard and Te'o will be drafted (won't we be picking later in the 1st with Peyton?) and ignoring where that 3rd would go if we didn't need Cousins (unless you are also suggesting that goes in this colossal trade up). You are also conveniently leaving out the salary cap costs of Manning that could be spent elsewhere without him.

All that said, you are talking about a very narrow window in this pie-in-the-sky vision people have of Manning being healthy and unaffected by surgery, layoff or change of venue and somehow re-becoming the QB he was a few years ago (not to mention him apparently being able to make a mediocrity like Cousins into someone to build a future around thru some kind of osmosis). Even at that, someone has to draw the line at any level of optimism that has us putting a Super Bowl team around him in one offseason. So now we're looking at a window of opportunity that begins at a 37 year old and goes forward from there, for ...what? 2 years?

No thanks. I'll take my chances at a decade and a half of greatness leading our team. A all the way.
I'm not guess at the costs to move up, that's about what it's going to take. I refer you to other trades and the NFL draft chart for evidence.

We are 40 million (and soon to be more after cuts) under the cap, and you worried about Manning's salary? Really? Do you realize how we got so far under? By cutting bloated contracts we spent to free agents, and have cheaper, younger, and better talented guys on the squad from the draft.

Yet, you sit up here and are willing to piss the team's future....just for the mere "CHANCE" of a franchise QB. If he busts, you have set the team back a minimum of five years. That's another five years of dreadful football, with other people getting our picks because we pissed them away for the "savior".

Choosing Package A:
Best Case: RGIII blooms, but the team is set back from contending due to the missed talent that would have came from draft picks used on him.

Wost case: RGIII is a bust, and the team is drafting in the top 5 for the next 4 years due to lack of talent.


Choosing Package B:

Best Case: Manning is healthy and returns to form. We use those draft picks to solidify the team's holes and contend almost immediately.

Wost Case: Manning isn't healthy, and we rely on Cousins or Orton at QB. We use those draft picks to further solidify the team make it a playoff caliber team.



At least with option B, the team could still be a playoff caliber team without a "franchise" QB. With option A, the team may still not be a playoff caliber team even with the "franchise" QB. You guys are willing to gamble too much for too little. I'm sooooo glad you aren't running this team. I would have stopped watching football by now if you were.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:33 PM   #62
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689 View Post
If RGIII is that franchise QB, I don't care about Riley Reiff, Manti Te'o, Alfonzo Denard, or Andersen "The Spider" Silva. A franchise QB makes all those holes disappear so I send my 1st rounder in 2012 and 2013, as well as a 3rd this year and a 4th next year for my QB and we are still left with:

2nd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 7th plus FA. You mean to tell me we can't fill holes with that? I don't want Manning.
Nice, except it's being reported it would be more like 1st rounder in 2012 and 2013, as well as a 2nd rounder in 2012 and a 3rd rounder in 2013.

Now add to that the Browns, and Miami and whoever else would like to have him deciding to add a pick or two here and there just to take it out from under the Skins trying to move up.

No thanks. I'd prefer to have the picks, hope PM gets healthy enough to play, and if not use Tannehill, Wilson, Weeden or whoever.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:35 PM   #63
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

I'd still make the trade if they wanted 2012 and 2013 1st, 2012 2nd or 3rd and 2013 3rd
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:37 PM   #64
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by Hog1 View Post
As far as I have seen. The latest number puts us at a projected 50m under the cap to sign our guys, acquire new FA's and sign draft picks.
To my knowledge from what has been reported in the media, Peyton is prepared to negotiate a Very Cap friendly deal. HEAVY in incentives. He is reportedly less concerned about the money than the situation into which he will play.
However accurate the 50 mil number is, it will go quicker than most realize. But that's beside the point. Cap room is cap room. If you don't spend it on one player, you can spend it on another (or multiple). There's no magical amount available at which point a huge contract to one player couldn't have gone elsewhere and is thus irrelevant in terms of team building.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:37 PM   #65
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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They didn't have to sell the farm for one guy because they had the #1 overall pick to nab their QB.

I'm with Quake, the 49ers make a poor example of the point that you are trying to make.

Alex SMith isn't a franchise QB. Which is my point that the team can still contend even with a busted guy at QB. The Chicago Bears made it to the Super Bowl with Rex "i'm going deep" Grossman. Why did they make it that far? Because they had a solid team beyond a QB.

My point is, I rather have a solid team and keep trying at the QB, than to keep rolling the dice and pissing away draft picks just for the mere chance that one day we land on the jackpot. Even if you do manage to land that jackpot one day, you won't have any talent on the team to go beyond because you have been pissing the picks away this whole time after your chase for the golden goose.

Pittsburgh, New England, Green Bay do it the right way. Look at our record and playoff wins the past decade, and look at theirs. Looks like they are doing something right. That is, being patient, building the team smart, and finally finding that QB.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:39 PM   #66
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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I'd still make the trade if they wanted 2012 and 2013 1st, 2012 2nd or 3rd and 2013 3rd
Ok Vinny. I'm glad you don't run this team anymore either. How's the job search coming along?
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:39 PM   #67
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689 View Post
I'd still make the trade if they wanted 2012 and 2013 1st, 2012 2nd or 3rd and 2013 3rd
Yeah but you're not always the sharpest knife in the drawer either.

Don't you think you could find the next QB of the future sometime in the next 3-5 years or however long Manning is around for? You'd be able to acquire a guy at some point without trading up like a Cerrato style moron.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:41 PM   #68
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689 View Post
They have their QB. You gonna tell me they would get there with Rex Grossman? I know the strength of their team is defense and rushing attack, to say Alex Smith had nothing to do with it is crazy. They didn't have to sell the farm they were the worst team that year. We don't have that "luxury" of being the worst team so we need to take a risk and I feel RGIII is a risk worth taking. You don't, so we will just agree to disagree.
The Bears got to the Super Bowl WITH Rex Grossman and they had less talent than the 49ers. Your point is now null and void.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:41 PM   #69
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Aaron Rodgers fell into Green Bay's laps and this past season and the Saints game in the playoffs played like a franchise qb. But let's move on I'm not gonna convince you that we should trade for him and I'm not trying to and you won't convince me that we shouldn't.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:42 PM   #70
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by 44Deezel View Post
Can we all agree to a rule that no one is allowed to say, "Manning will get killed behind our O line"?

He was sacked 16 times in 2010. The Same O line gave up 35 last year.
Code:
Pressure
   |     \
   |      \
   |       \
Sacks   Pass attempt
            |        \
            |         \
            |          \
      Incomplete    Complete


Hits and knockdowns come on pass attempts.
Sacks do not measure actual time or the [change in] the physical position of the rushers with respect to Manning. Manning might avoid sacks because he often releases the ball within 1 second, but that doesn't mean that Dlinemen weren't a split second from legally hitting him after the pass/incompletion.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:42 PM   #71
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Most smart teams build their team via draft and supplement via FA. We have been doing the opposite up until this past year. I like the new way.
Yeah, me too. I'm tired of being the SB champs of the offseason.

"Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results".

The Skins have repeated the same mistake for 11yrs. They shift one year and do something different with good results and everyone gets withdrawls and wants to return to the Skins of old.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:43 PM   #72
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689 View Post
Aaron Rodgers fell into Green Bay's laps and this past season and the Saints game in the playoffs played like a franchise qb. But let's move on I'm not gonna convince you that we should trade for him and I'm not trying to and you won't convince me that we shouldn't.
If you can't discuss intelligently, go to ES. We keep hearing you repeat that you believe the Skins should take the risk and trade up for Griffin, but you're not giving one iota of logical reasoning as to why that direction makes the team better than acquiring Manning in free agency.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:43 PM   #73
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Franchise quarterbacks are fun. Until 2012 happens, Alex Smith both is and is not a franchise quarterback, depending on the argument you are trying to make. And even better, you don't have to believe one or the other. You can just use the term or reject the term as it suits you.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:47 PM   #74
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
I'm not guess at the costs to move up, that's about what it's going to take. I refer you to other trades and the NFL draft chart for evidence.

We are 40 million (and soon to be more after cuts) under the cap, and you worried about Manning's salary? Really? Do you realize how we got so far under? By cutting bloated contracts we spent to free agents, and have cheaper, younger, and better talented guys on the squad from the draft.

Yet, you sit up here and are willing to piss the team's future....just for the mere "CHANCE" of a franchise QB. If he busts, you have set the team back a minimum of five years. That's another five years of dreadful football, with other people getting our picks because we pissed them away for the "savior".

Choosing Package A:
Best Case: RGIII blooms, but the team is set back from contending due to the missed talent that would have came from draft picks used on him.

Wost case: RGIII is a bust, and the team is drafting in the top 5 for the next 4 years due to lack of talent.


Choosing Package B:

Best Case: Manning is healthy and returns to form. We use those draft picks to solidify the team's holes and contend almost immediately.

Wost Case: Manning isn't healthy, and we rely on Cousins or Orton at QB. We use those draft picks to further solidify the team make it a playoff caliber team.



At least with option B, the team could still be a playoff caliber team without a "franchise" QB. With option A, the team may still not be a playoff caliber team even with the "franchise" QB. You guys are willing to gamble too much for too little. I'm sooooo glad you aren't running this team. I would have stopped watching football by now if you were.
1. There is no recent trade nor example from the value chart that makes your trade likely.

2. Cap room is cap room. If you give 15 mil to Peyton Manning, that is 15 mil that can't be spent esewhere. Just brushing that aside to try to make your argument stronger is pretty weak.

3. I don't believe every drafted QB is the same and that it amounts to a coin flip whether they bust or not. Griffin is one of the best QB prospects in recent years, and that's why I want to draft him. It's not because I just want some kind of randomized chance at a good QB.

4. If a chance at greatness is staring you in the face and all you can do is worry about what the worst case scenario is, then you'll never have the guts necessary to succeed. Big accomplishments never come by avoiding any risk.

5. I couldn't care less if the Redskins become "playoff contenders". I want them to become "Super Bowl contenders". There's a difference. And teams that don't set their sights on titles never win them.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:48 PM   #75
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
If you can't discuss intelligently, go to ES. We keep hearing you repeat that you believe the Skins should take the risk and trade up for Griffin, but you're not giving one iota of logical reasoning as to why that direction makes the team better than acquiring Manning in free agency.
I gotta better idea. If you don't like what I post put me on your ignore list that way you don't have to read it and I don't have to see your pathetic attempt to be an asshole. So everybody wins.
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