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Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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View Poll Results: If you had to choose between the two...
Sign Peyton Manning 43 32.82%
Trade up for RGIII 88 67.18%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-16-2012, 04:07 PM   #811
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689 View Post
If the time isn't now to get our QB then when is the time?
When we can afford to give up a bunch of draft picks. Right now, it's draft picks that infuse your team with young talent and keeps your salary cap down.


This was Vinny's main problem. He pissed away those draft picks that would have kept the salary cap down and the talent level young and fresh. No, he though he'd piss the picks away for "proven" players, throw a ton of cash on them. So when these players didn't pan out, not only was he out of the young talent he could have had from the draft picks, but now his salary cap is ruined due to signing guys like this. Vinny's team had absolute 0 depth to them, which is why you saw the team take a dive in 2009 when a couple starters went down. Not only that, but he had to make up for the loss of draft picks via free agency which further killed the salary cap, and he had to keep renegotiating these old contracts just to fit under the cap each year.

That's exactly what happens when you gamble and have nothing to back it up. Right now, teams that have a 50/50 record in the draft are considered incredible and downright geniuses. This is the primary reason why you need all the draft picks you can get. The more you have, the higher the chances you'll land more productive players. Bill Belicheck isn't a dummy. There is a reason he keeps trading his picks away for more picks. It's a numbers game. More picks mean more chances.

Right now. We need all the chances we can get.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:08 PM   #812
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Unless there is something wrong that MS sees in RG3, I really don't see why he wouldn't go after him. There is always the risk of any rookie to not work out. But I just feel that if for some reason RG3 is a bust, it would be hard to get on MS' case for taking a risk on a highly touted QB of the future.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:10 PM   #813
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 View Post
Getting a QB that will make you a contender for the next decade is not abandoning the long term plan especially when the net cost is two starters at best.

If anything not pulling the trigger on a prospect like Griffin is killing the long term plan. With scouting improving by leaps and bounds these diamond in the rough QB's are getting harder and harder to find so when you have a Griffin in your crosshairs you pull the trigger.
Apparently you haven't been keeping up with Smoot's reports on how the Redskins feel about RGIII. They like him, but not enough to sell the farm.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:10 PM   #814
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
Unless there is something wrong that MS sees in RG3, I really don't see why he wouldn't go after him. There is always the risk of any rookie to not work out. But I just feel that if for some reason RG3 is a bust, it would be hard to get on MS' case for taking a risk on a highly touted QB of the future.
Especially one with no obvious red flags. Whats not to love about a genius with world class athletic ability and leadership skills not to mention experience turning joke of a football program into a contender?
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:10 PM   #815
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Looking at the most recent 20 SuperBowl Champion Quaterbacks:

- 12 of those games were won by a QB drafted in the 1st round within the first 11 picks. (including Steve Young in the Supplemental draft after coming from the USFL)

- 9 of those Super Bowls were won by a QB chosen 1st overall (Incl. Young)

- 15 were won by Quaterbacks who were drafted within the top 33 picks overall (after you account for Favre, Brees and Rodgers)

- 3 were won by Tom Brady (yes we know...drafted 199th overall)

- The other 2 were Kurt Warner and Brad Johnson.

- 3 were won by a QB who was acquired via free agency. (Brees, Dilfer, Brad Johnson)(excluding Warner who was in the Arena league prior to the Rams).


Summary:

60% of the Super Bowls were won by a QB drafted high in the 1st Round.

3 out of 4 were won by QB's drafted in the top 33 picks.

10% were won by FA QB's with an historically great defense.

1 was one by a free agent QB without a great defense.

1 was one by a once in a generation Cinderella Story (Warner)

You have a great chance to win with a late round "developmental QB"....if his name is Tom Brady.

My hope:

We draft our guy high in the 1st round.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:13 PM   #816
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
When we can afford to give up a bunch of draft picks. Right now, it's draft picks that infuse your team with young talent and keeps your salary cap down.


This was Vinny's main problem. He pissed away those draft picks that would have kept the salary cap down and the talent level young and fresh. No, he though he'd piss the picks away for "proven" players, throw a ton of cash on them. So when these players didn't pan out, not only was he out of the young talent he could have had from the draft picks, but now his salary cap is ruined due to signing guys like this. Vinny's team had absolute 0 depth to them, which is why you saw the team take a dive in 2009 when a couple starters went down. Not only that, but he had to make up for the loss of draft picks via free agency which further killed the salary cap, and he had to keep renegotiating these old contracts just to fit under the cap each year.

That's exactly what happens when you gamble and have nothing to back it up. Right now, teams that have a 50/50 record in the draft are considered incredible and downright geniuses. This is the primary reason why you need all the draft picks you can get. The more you have, the higher the chances you'll land more productive players. Bill Belicheck isn't a dummy. There is a reason he keeps trading his picks away for more picks. It's a numbers game. More picks mean more chances.

Right now. We need all the chances we can get.
The reason Belichick keeps trading away picks for more picks in future years is because he knows if he has a year where he cashes in and makes 12 draft picks and five in the first two rounds, he's just going to have to cut young talent for someone else to pick up. So he pushes the draft value into future years so it's not wasted by roster constraint.

I disagree that trading draft picks for other draft picks is somehow costing you value in the long run. It shouldn't be. I agree that the Redskins should be looking to trade up on the Redskins own terms. Not the Rams terms. Not the Browns terms. Exploring all options means that if you're willing to move up and name your own price to do so, and you can get a trade you like, you do it. What would be wrong is trading up to no. 2 without negotiating the price just to ensure you get RG3. That's not good business.

If the value of moving up is worth an additional pick, then sometimes it makes sense to trade that additional pick. If the value is an additional pick, and the other side wants three picks, then you have a negotiation, not a deal.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:15 PM   #817
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Would this team be able to win more games than this past season's team:

QB: RG3(starter), Clausen (backup)
RB: Helu, Hightower, Royster
FB: Young
TEs: Cooley, Davis, Paulsen
WR 1: (VJax, Bowe, or Colston) WR 2: Hank WR 3: Moss or Gaffney
OT: T. Williams, Free Agent RT
OG: Chester, Grubbs
C: Montgomery
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:18 PM   #818
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

I keep hearing the "we can't afford to take risks"...."let's stockpile our picks" arguement.

It's like a guy who gets his undergrad degree...gets offered a high paying job with big bonus incentives (performance based of course)...and turns it down because he doesn't want to risk not getting his MBA before hitting the field. He takes more years, gets his MBA, and comes out making the same money he was offered after undergrad...then he realizes that he could have "taken a risk", took the job, earned his MBA part-time, built up his resume and would have been making more $$$$.


Long and corny way to say....get our QB of the future and build around him while we develop him. Don't be afraid to multi-task.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:19 PM   #819
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Old 02-16-2012, 04:20 PM   #820
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Old 02-16-2012, 04:21 PM   #821
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son Of Man View Post
Looking at the most recent 20 SuperBowl Champion Quaterbacks:

- 12 of those games were won by a QB drafted in the 1st round within the first 11 picks. (including Steve Young in the Supplemental draft after coming from the USFL)

- 9 of those Super Bowls were won by a QB chosen 1st overall (Incl. Young)

- 15 were won by Quaterbacks who were drafted within the top 33 picks overall (after you account for Favre, Brees and Rodgers)

- 3 were won by Tom Brady (yes we know...drafted 199th overall)

- The other 2 were Kurt Warner and Brad Johnson.

- 3 were won by a QB who was acquired via free agency. (Brees, Dilfer, Brad Johnson)(excluding Warner who was in the Arena league prior to the Rams).


Summary:

60% of the Super Bowls were won by a QB drafted high in the 1st Round.

3 out of 4 were won by QB's drafted in the top 33 picks.

10% were won by FA QB's with an historically great defense.

1 was one by a free agent QB without a great defense.

1 was one by a once in a generation Cinderella Story (Warner)

You have a great chance to win with a late round "developmental QB"....if his name is Tom Brady.

My hope:

We draft our guy high in the 1st round.
Most of the quarterbacks in the league -- good or bad -- were first round picks. If you have a starting QB who wasn't picked in the first round, you're already in a pretty severe minority. Knowing where they were drafted isn't predictive of QB quality, unless your universe is ALL quarterbacks drafted. Because later round picks tend to be backups and let go out of the league where first rounders keep getting picked up to get additional chances (some successful).

So saying that there is a tendency for highly drafted quarterbacks to win the super bowl is sort of like pointing out that the highest paid coaching staffs tend to win the super bowl. It's very true, but when you compete at the highest level, you kind of expect the alpha types to make it to the top. And you don't consider it science when they do. That was the whole idea.

With that said, research shows that the late round picks who do last a long time in the league are just as good once they are veteran quarterbacks as are first round picks. But the reason that first round picks have much longer careers is that lesser prospects aren't around for their 6th, 7th, and 8th years, when QBs are in their prime.

I'll give you an example: Dan Orlovsky is probably one of the 30 best NFL quarterbacks. He was out of the league for two years. Curtis Painter was employed by a team during this time Orlovsky was out of the league. The biggest difference: Curtis Painter is a 3rd year player. Orlovsky was a 7th year player. Painter is probably going to be out of the NFL next year.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:22 PM   #822
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son Of Man View Post
Long and corny way to say....get our QB of the future and build around him while we develop him. Don't be afraid to multi-task.
Well you wouldn't be able to surround the young QB with a lot of new talent this season (since you'd be giving up picks), but possibly the next season.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:23 PM   #823
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
Would this team be able to win more games than this past season's team:

QB: RG3(starter), Clausen (backup)
RB: Helu, Hightower, Royster
FB: Young
TEs: Cooley, Davis, Paulsen
WR 1: (VJax, Bowe, or Colston) WR 2: Hank WR 3: Moss or Gaffney
OT: T. Williams, Free Agent RT
OG: Chester, Grubbs
C: Montgomery
yes
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:23 PM   #824
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
Would this team be able to win more games than this past season's team:



QB: RG3(starter), Clausen (backup)

RB: Helu, Hightower, Royster

FB: Young

TEs: Cooley, Davis, Paulsen

WR 1: (VJax, Bowe, or Colston) WR 2: Hank WR 3: Moss or Gaffney

OT: T. Williams, Free Agent RT

OG: Chester, Grubbs

C: Montgomery
Hell yes, and I have been saying that for a while now.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:23 PM   #825
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
Apparently you haven't been keeping up with Smoot's reports on how the Redskins feel about RGIII. They like him, but not enough to sell the farm.
And there are sources that point to the Redskins going after Griffin. Granted I would bet on them signing Peyton at this point but it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility that they will trade up for RGIII.

Quote:
According to Carol Ross Joynt of the Washingtonian, Redskins president of operations Dennis Greene was overheard telling people at a luncheon that a new quarterback has been chosen “and fans will be elated.” He said the players name won’t be revealed until April’s NFL draft.
Haslett “Insider” Confirms Chat « CBS DC

Quote:
Denny posted numerous tidbits, including the Skins not being interested in free agent QB Matt Flynn, their strong interest in trading up to the second overall pick and more. Haslett has come out and denied the story, which Denny understands.

Denny, a pastor, went on to defend himself from critics who don’t believe his story, admitting he only thought he was only writing to “two or three hundred friends of mine.”
Quote:
They are strongly considering trading up with St. Louis Rams. He said, they have already talked with Jeff Fisher about the possibility. He did not elaborate on the details, other than to say they had talked with Fisher and are serious about getting a good QB. So again, I am eating crow, since I thought the Redskins would trade down for extra picks. They are not trading down, since they do not believe the QB's in the later rounds are talented enough to lead the team. Haslett believes the team is good enough to win, if they just had one of the two talented QB's at top.
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