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Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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View Poll Results: If you had to choose between the two...
Sign Peyton Manning 43 32.82%
Trade up for RGIII 88 67.18%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-16-2012, 04:26 PM   #826
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Because your a doctor and I'm a lawyer. I don't wanna fix people, I wanna get them outta jail.
Exactly. By the way that jerk I operated on last week wants to sue me. Said surfing the web on my smart phone during emergency surgery counts as Malpractice.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:28 PM   #827
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Well you wouldn't be able to surround the young QB with a lot of new talent this season (since you'd be giving up picks), but possibly the next season.
...and the season after that...and the season after that....and
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:30 PM   #828
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Most of the quarterbacks in the league -- good or bad -- were first round picks. If you have a starting QB who wasn't picked in the first round, you're already in a pretty severe minority. Knowing where they were drafted isn't predictive of QB quality, unless your universe is ALL quarterbacks drafted. Because later round picks tend to be backups and let go out of the league where first rounders keep getting picked up to get additional chances (some successful).

So saying that there is a tendency for highly drafted quarterbacks to win the super bowl is sort of like pointing out that the highest paid coaching staffs tend to win the super bowl. It's very true, but when you compete at the highest level, you kind of expect the alpha types to make it to the top. And you don't consider it science when they do. That was the whole idea.

With that said, research shows that the late round picks who do last a long time in the league are just as good once they are veteran quarterbacks as are first round picks. But the reason that first round picks have much longer careers is that lesser prospects aren't around for their 6th, 7th, and 8th years, when QBs are in their prime.

I'll give you an example: Dan Orlovsky is probably one of the 30 best NFL quarterbacks. He was out of the league for two years. Curtis Painter was employed by a team during this time Orlovsky was out of the league. The biggest difference: Curtis Painter is a 3rd year player. Orlovsky was a 7th year player. Painter is probably going to be out of the NFL next year.
Not disagreeing with you...just showing the data.

In my business we have a saying: "Men lie, women lie, numbers don't lie."
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:31 PM   #829
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Not disagreeing with you...just showing the data.

In my business we have a saying: "Men lie, women lie, numbers don't lie."
And I've heard: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"

Speaking of the first-round QB and SB wins. Aaron Rodgers doesn't count on that argument. Although he was picked up in the first round (late in the first), Rodgers sat for three years on the bench, and I am sure anyone who's making a case for RG3 is not saying that we should pick him up to sit him for three years.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:33 PM   #830
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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And I've heard: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Perfect segway


How numbers in statistical surveys can be used to deceive and how one can be scammed.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:34 PM   #831
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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I disagree that trading draft picks for other draft picks is somehow costing you value in the long run.

It's a simple numbers game. Would have have more of a chance of winning the lottery if I gave you 100 tickets or if I game you 1?


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I keep hearing the "we can't afford to take risks"...."let's stockpile our picks" arguement.

Nobody's said that. You are using part of what was said and nobody has said lets stockpile our picks.

I said we can't afford to take huge risks NOW. This doesn't mean not to take them at all or sometime in the near future. Huge difference in what I said and what you are saying.


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Whadda know? That was Vinny's theme song too. Good company.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:35 PM   #832
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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And I've heard: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"

Speaking of the first-round QB and SB wins. Aaron Rodgers doesn't count on that argument. Although he was picked up in the first round (late in the first), Rodgers sat for three years on the bench, and I am sure anyone who's making a case for RG3 is not saying that we should pick him up to sit him for three years.
I don't see why that excludes him from the data....even so it only changes the data by 1 Super Bowl out of the last 20.

Look. I am not saying that drafting a QB high is a lock for the Lombardi trophy....it does appear that it can help though.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:35 PM   #833
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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...and the season after that...and the season after that....and
Not to step on Dirtbag's toes because this is kind of his territory, but you can do it either way. Sure you can give up one draft and try to land the best QB, because eventually, if the player pans out, you will make up for it in the long run.

That's never not true. You can also do what NC_Skins is suggesting, and build up your roster this season...and the season after that...and the season after that, until you find the QB of your future is already on your roster. That happens sometimes.

Most teams prefer to do it your way: get the quarterback, fill in the rest later. The Parcells/Belichick model is really the only one that suggests you can find your quarterback internally if you keep picking intriguing guys that one else believes in, which is why Brady is where he is and Romo is where he is.

Getting RG3 and building around him later isn't a wrong move, but you still have to be VERY comfortable with the player, if the actual return on the investment isn't going to be noticeable for five or six years. If you're comfortable with the player, I say go for it. But then don't try to trade for Jay Cutler three years in when you haven't yet received ROI.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:37 PM   #834
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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Well you wouldn't be able to surround the young QB with a lot of new talent this season (since you'd be giving up picks), but possibly the next season.
I would consider Helu/Hightower/Royster/Hankerson/Davis young talent. Throw Dwayne Bowe in there and you've got something.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:37 PM   #835
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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It's a simple numbers game. Would have have more of a chance of winning the lottery if I gave you 100 tickets or if I game you 1?
Could be either, depending on how the different games are structured.

With the caveat of: if we have a chance to turn this 6th overall pick into 100 picks anywhere in the draft, I think we should do it, no matter who is available at the 6th pick.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:38 PM   #836
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

NC:

I respectfully disagree...do it now (if they have targeted a guy they like).

All due respect....Vinny jokes are getting a tad stale. Just saying, I appreciate original material.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:41 PM   #837
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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And there are sources that point to the Redskins going after Griffin. Granted I would bet on them signing Peyton at this point but it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility that they will trade up for RGIII.

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I didn't say they weren't interested in RGIII or that they weren't going to move up. I said they weren't going to sell the farm for him.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:42 PM   #838
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Have your nurse call me secretary. Had a similar case last year when a client was being sued for eating while removing tonsils. Knocked it out in 15 minutes.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:43 PM   #839
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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I didn't say they weren't interested in RGIII or that they weren't going to move up. I said they weren't going to sell the farm for him.
I wouldn't sell the whole farm.

But I would slaughter a couple of cows, butcher a few pigs and break some chicken necks....to make room for a prized Stallion I could put out to stud.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:44 PM   #840
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Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

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NC:

I respectfully disagree...do it now (if they have targeted a guy they like).

All due respect....Vinny jokes are getting a tad stale. Just saying, I appreciate original material.

No. What's getting stale is the..........TRADE IT ALL FOR THIS GUY BECAUSE HE"S THE SURE FIRE THING.....mentality. How about you practice your own advice and try something new instead of what we've been doing the past 12 years. Until that mentality changes, it's Vinnish and always will be. I just find it ironic that many of you are exactly like the guy you profess to hate or despise.

I like RGIII and would love for him to be on this team, but not at the expense of what some of you are willing to give up. That said, there is a certain amount I would be fine with doing. Hell, I would rather move up to the #3 or #4 than the #2.
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