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O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Old 04-05-2012, 07:01 PM   #211
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Is this for real?


laugh to keep from crying
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:06 PM   #212
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Yes, because the wonderlic doesn't mean shit.
Yup, I remember Vince Young scored a 6 and retook it and got a 16 and STILL got taken what 3rd overrall?
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:09 PM   #213
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Yup, I remember Vince Young scored a 6 and retook it and got a 16 and STILL got taken what 3rd overrall?
and it's worked out sooo well for him. marino scored a 16 and ended up in the HoF while alex smith got a 49 i think and still kinda sucks, so as far as proving football merits, i'd say it's tangential at best.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:11 PM   #214
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

So anyway back to the OL, the 3rd round is definitely a nice spot to be looking for a RT to develop.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:39 PM   #215
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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So anyway back to the OL, the 3rd round is definitely a nice spot to be looking for a RT to develop.
Knowing we don't have the second round pick makes me think we could really use about 6 different players at that third round pick.

Maybe the NFL will just let us have them all?
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:47 PM   #216
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

So many vet linemen released that we could find a couple good fits if we really wanted to go the FA route for O line needs. I am not totally down on our line per say, but I don't think that it is all that solid. Trent gets nicked up a lot, and is going to get worse as time goes on. It is simple aging that will hurt him, like Tre Johnson, etc. Linemen really don't last all that long anymore since they are so enormous and their bodies really aren't geared for that or that type of abuse.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:49 PM   #217
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Knowing we don't have the second round pick makes me think we could really use about 6 different players at that third round pick.

Maybe the NFL will just let us have them all?
That lost second round pick means simply our efforts at rebuilding with the draft apart from RG III is going to be limited.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:56 PM   #218
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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So many vet linemen released that we could find a couple good fits if we really wanted to go the FA route for O line needs. I am not totally down on our line per say, but I don't think that it is all that solid. Trent gets nicked up a lot, and is going to get worse as time goes on. It is simple aging that will hurt him, like Tre Johnson, etc. Linemen really don't last all that long anymore since they are so enormous and their bodies really aren't geared for that or that type of abuse.
you do realize TW is 23 right
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:42 AM   #219
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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That lost second round pick means simply our efforts at rebuilding with the draft apart from RG III is going to be limited.


Now that is just stupid. One 2nd round pick isn't gonna make or break anything.
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:47 AM   #220
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Now that is just stupid. One 2nd round pick isn't gonna make or break anything.
It means a lot for the 2012 season. I mean, whose the worst player we've taken in the second round in recent times? Jacobs? Thomas? Trading the pick is like adding that guy to the current mix because you know you can't get anything on it.

In the grand scheme of things, when we're talking about RG3 in 2016 or 2017 and how good he'll be, I don't think it matters very much. But for the Shanahan era its a big deal.
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:09 AM   #221
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

2nd Round Picks:
1999: Jon Jansen
2001: Fred Smoot
2002: Ladell Betts
2003: Taylor Jacobs
2006: Rocky McIntosh
2008: Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas
2011: Jarvis Jenkins

I would trade that entire list for an elite QB. On that list, who was a major contributor in years one and two? Davis? Jansen? Smoot?

Yes, the loss of the 2nd rounder hinders us. Okay. It's the old, you don't make an omellete without breaking some eggs.

In the same vein as the NFL letting us pick 6 guys with our 3rd rounder - Maybe we should have just asked them to give us a franchise QB of our choosing at no cost and then we would still have the 2nd round pick.

You take the good with the bad. If RGIII turns out to be a phenom, missing on getting a Jansen or a Davis will be forgotten. If he struggles as a rookie, the 2nd round player probably wasn't going to equate to more wins anyway. And, God forbid, RGIII is a bust - well, we are just up the sh**iest creek in the world without a paddle or a canoe.
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:28 AM   #222
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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I'm no expert, but it seems to me that the #1 thing that affects the performance of the O-line is the play of the QB behind it. The same O-line that couldn't keep Jason Campbell upright created huge running lanes and gave Todd Collins all the time he needed to make plays down the field.

Look at the Colts O-line last year without Peyton Manning under Center. And look what happened when John Beck played against one of the worst pass rushing teams in the NFL, the Bills. He was sacked 10 times. QBs that can make Defenders miss, don't hold onto the ball too long and can anticipate where the pressure is going to come from before the ball is snapped take a lot of pressue off their O-lines. QBs that punish the blitz like Kurt Warner did so well, make Defenses play in nickel and dime sets more often. Look how the Jets play Brady - 3 down linemen with 8 DBs.

I didn't get the sense that our QBs were under constant duress last year, and the running game looked pretty damn good late in the season even though we were missing starters on the O-line. Plus, there are ways to negate a good pass rush with play calling. Draw plays, screen passes, bootlegs, etc.

I laugh when people claim we have SO MANY holes. Every team has holes. The Giants were dead last in Rushing and the Pats were one of the worst Defenses in the league all year. Aaron Rodgers was one of the most sacked QBs in the league when they won it all, and so was Big Ben when one of the times they won it.

I have no doubt we'll add some pieces across the O-line and will find a WR either in Free Agency or the Draft, but until we get a legitimate starting QB, the team will appear to have more holes than it really does.

Besides, isn't Shanny known for making good O-lines out of middle to late round no-namers that fit his zone blocking scheme?
Excellent point, I was thinking about that for awhile and I came to the conclusion that he's a Rookie.

Being that, he can't automatically adjust to the details of the defenses however because of his physical ability, he most likely can. But, you don't want to take that chance -- atleast the fans don't.

I think Shannahan really wanted to address the offensive in Free Agency, and focus on defense in the Draft. With that said, I don't believe he's going to attempt to address the offensive, expect for QB in the draft.

Meaning, I think the offensive line isn't going to change for this season.
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:39 AM   #223
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
2nd Round Picks:
1999: Jon Jansen
2001: Fred Smoot
2002: Ladell Betts
2003: Taylor Jacobs
2006: Rocky McIntosh
2008: Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas
2011: Jarvis Jenkins

I would trade that entire list for an elite QB. On that list, who was a major contributor in years one and two? Davis? Jansen? Smoot?

Yes, the loss of the 2nd rounder hinders us. Okay. It's the old, you don't make an omellete without breaking some eggs.

In the same vein as the NFL letting us pick 6 guys with our 3rd rounder - Maybe we should have just asked them to give us a franchise QB of our choosing at no cost and then we would still have the 2nd round pick.

You take the good with the bad. If RGIII turns out to be a phenom, missing on getting a Jansen or a Davis will be forgotten. If he struggles as a rookie, the 2nd round player probably wasn't going to equate to more wins anyway. And, God forbid, RGIII is a bust - well, we are just up the sh**iest creek in the world without a paddle or a canoe.
If the recent history of the franchise were the be-all-end-all here, it'd be easy to temper expectations for RG3 this upcoming year. Out of the performance of the three first round QBs the Redskins have taken, Shuler was inadequate as a rookie, Ramsey was merely adequate, and Campbell didn't play a snap. Don't average that out: it's not great. Certainly not worth trading up for.

Here's the deal: the Redskins are in bad shape. They needed to solve their quarterback issue in the first round, and then needed to have a hell of a draft beyond the first round. Especially after the cap penalty threw a wrench into things.

My personal philosophy on things is that you always want to give yourself the best fighting chance to compete now and in the future. To me, that means instead of trading up (or even down), the Redskins needed to land three top level players in the first two days of this draft, including one quarterback.

They're going to get the quarterback. Have him. No one can jump them. They are still able to use that third round pick to bring in another top player, provided they are aggressive enough to target a guy who is falling due to high supply (such as CB or WR). But that's essentially their limitation. There's a virtual guarantee here that they'll come up short of what they needed to in order to improve the team to compete in a loaded NFC.

So while I think this can still be a pretty darn good offseason (fixed QB, fixed WR?, have another day two pick), not having that second round pick eliminates any irrational hope I might have had of this team getting back on the pace to compete in 2013 after it set itself back the last two years.

I understand fully if people see Griffin and are like "goddamnnit, I'll take it!" independant of any other failures of the offseason. I get that a lot of successful second round picks aren't with the team anymore. But mortgating the future makes a lot more sense if you have the resources to be relevant in the present. If you're giving up future picks to be better (but still inadequate) in the present, that's not good or bad so much as it's desperate.
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Last edited by GTripp0012; 04-06-2012 at 02:50 AM.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:43 AM   #224
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

Shanahan has historically drafted zone blocking O-linemen well in later rounds. However in his two Redskin drafts, he's waited to draft until the 7th round, and failed on 2 of 3 picks. He needs to draft a couple linemen in earlier rounds this year, don't want to rely on a late 6-7th rounder to protect RG3 in the near future.

2010
1st round - TW - good so far minus drug abuse
7th round - Erik Cook - fail
7th round - Selvish Capers - fail

2011
7th round - Maurice Hurt - shows promise
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:09 AM   #225
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Shanahan has historically drafted zone blocking O-linemen well in later rounds. However in his two Redskin drafts, he's waited to draft until the 7th round, and failed on 2 of 3 picks. He needs to draft a couple linemen in earlier rounds this year, don't want to rely on a late 6-7th rounder to protect RG3 in the near future.

2010
1st round - TW - good so far minus drug abuse
7th round - Erik Cook - fail
7th round - Selvish Capers - fail

2011
7th round - Maurice Hurt - shows promise
I wouldn't be surprised to see changes down the draft board so we can pick up 4-6 players of OL, S, and CB in the 6th, 7th. If 1 can be a consistent starter or a nickle cb type starter it would be a win.
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