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O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Old 04-06-2012, 02:28 AM   #241
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Originally Posted by 44Deezel View Post
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that the #1 thing that affects the performance of the O-line is the play of the QB behind it. The same O-line that couldn't keep Jason Campbell upright created huge running lanes and gave Todd Collins all the time he needed to make plays down the field.

Look at the Colts O-line last year without Peyton Manning under Center. And look what happened when John Beck played against one of the worst pass rushing teams in the NFL, the Bills. He was sacked 10 times. QBs that can make Defenders miss, don't hold onto the ball too long and can anticipate where the pressure is going to come from before the ball is snapped take a lot of pressue off their O-lines. QBs that punish the blitz like Kurt Warner did so well, make Defenses play in nickel and dime sets more often. Look how the Jets play Brady - 3 down linemen with 8 DBs.

I didn't get the sense that our QBs were under constant duress last year, and the running game looked pretty damn good late in the season even though we were missing starters on the O-line. Plus, there are ways to negate a good pass rush with play calling. Draw plays, screen passes, bootlegs, etc.

I laugh when people claim we have SO MANY holes. Every team has holes. The Giants were dead last in Rushing and the Pats were one of the worst Defenses in the league all year. Aaron Rodgers was one of the most sacked QBs in the league when they won it all, and so was Big Ben when one of the times they won it.

I have no doubt we'll add some pieces across the O-line and will find a WR either in Free Agency or the Draft, but until we get a legitimate starting QB, the team will appear to have more holes than it really does.

Besides, isn't Shanny known for making good O-lines out of middle to late round no-namers that fit his zone blocking scheme?
Excellent point, I was thinking about that for awhile and I came to the conclusion that he's a Rookie.

Being that, he can't automatically adjust to the details of the defenses however because of his physical ability, he most likely can. But, you don't want to take that chance -- atleast the fans don't.

I think Shannahan really wanted to address the offensive in Free Agency, and focus on defense in the Draft. With that said, I don't believe he's going to attempt to address the offensive, expect for QB in the draft.

Meaning, I think the offensive line isn't going to change for this season.
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:39 AM   #242
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
2nd Round Picks:
1999: Jon Jansen
2001: Fred Smoot
2002: Ladell Betts
2003: Taylor Jacobs
2006: Rocky McIntosh
2008: Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas
2011: Jarvis Jenkins

I would trade that entire list for an elite QB. On that list, who was a major contributor in years one and two? Davis? Jansen? Smoot?

Yes, the loss of the 2nd rounder hinders us. Okay. It's the old, you don't make an omellete without breaking some eggs.

In the same vein as the NFL letting us pick 6 guys with our 3rd rounder - Maybe we should have just asked them to give us a franchise QB of our choosing at no cost and then we would still have the 2nd round pick.

You take the good with the bad. If RGIII turns out to be a phenom, missing on getting a Jansen or a Davis will be forgotten. If he struggles as a rookie, the 2nd round player probably wasn't going to equate to more wins anyway. And, God forbid, RGIII is a bust - well, we are just up the sh**iest creek in the world without a paddle or a canoe.
If the recent history of the franchise were the be-all-end-all here, it'd be easy to temper expectations for RG3 this upcoming year. Out of the performance of the three first round QBs the Redskins have taken, Shuler was inadequate as a rookie, Ramsey was merely adequate, and Campbell didn't play a snap. Don't average that out: it's not great. Certainly not worth trading up for.

Here's the deal: the Redskins are in bad shape. They needed to solve their quarterback issue in the first round, and then needed to have a hell of a draft beyond the first round. Especially after the cap penalty threw a wrench into things.

My personal philosophy on things is that you always want to give yourself the best fighting chance to compete now and in the future. To me, that means instead of trading up (or even down), the Redskins needed to land three top level players in the first two days of this draft, including one quarterback.

They're going to get the quarterback. Have him. No one can jump them. They are still able to use that third round pick to bring in another top player, provided they are aggressive enough to target a guy who is falling due to high supply (such as CB or WR). But that's essentially their limitation. There's a virtual guarantee here that they'll come up short of what they needed to in order to improve the team to compete in a loaded NFC.

So while I think this can still be a pretty darn good offseason (fixed QB, fixed WR?, have another day two pick), not having that second round pick eliminates any irrational hope I might have had of this team getting back on the pace to compete in 2013 after it set itself back the last two years.

I understand fully if people see Griffin and are like "goddamnnit, I'll take it!" independant of any other failures of the offseason. I get that a lot of successful second round picks aren't with the team anymore. But mortgating the future makes a lot more sense if you have the resources to be relevant in the present. If you're giving up future picks to be better (but still inadequate) in the present, that's not good or bad so much as it's desperate.
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Last edited by GTripp0012; 04-06-2012 at 02:50 AM.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:43 AM   #243
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

Shanahan has historically drafted zone blocking O-linemen well in later rounds. However in his two Redskin drafts, he's waited to draft until the 7th round, and failed on 2 of 3 picks. He needs to draft a couple linemen in earlier rounds this year, don't want to rely on a late 6-7th rounder to protect RG3 in the near future.

2010
1st round - TW - good so far minus drug abuse
7th round - Erik Cook - fail
7th round - Selvish Capers - fail

2011
7th round - Maurice Hurt - shows promise
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:09 AM   #244
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Originally Posted by ethat001 View Post
Shanahan has historically drafted zone blocking O-linemen well in later rounds. However in his two Redskin drafts, he's waited to draft until the 7th round, and failed on 2 of 3 picks. He needs to draft a couple linemen in earlier rounds this year, don't want to rely on a late 6-7th rounder to protect RG3 in the near future.

2010
1st round - TW - good so far minus drug abuse
7th round - Erik Cook - fail
7th round - Selvish Capers - fail

2011
7th round - Maurice Hurt - shows promise
I wouldn't be surprised to see changes down the draft board so we can pick up 4-6 players of OL, S, and CB in the 6th, 7th. If 1 can be a consistent starter or a nickle cb type starter it would be a win.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:34 PM   #245
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Originally Posted by ethat001 View Post
Shanahan has historically drafted zone blocking O-linemen well in later rounds. However in his two Redskin drafts, he's waited to draft until the 7th round, and failed on 2 of 3 picks. He needs to draft a couple linemen in earlier rounds this year, don't want to rely on a late 6-7th rounder to protect RG3 in the near future.

2010
1st round - TW - good so far minus drug abuse
7th round - Erik Cook - fail
7th round - Selvish Capers - fail

2011
7th round - Maurice Hurt - shows promise
I understand what you're saying. Mike Shanahan micro manages like no other coach in charge of personnel in the NFL. He looks meticulously for excellent linemen in the later rounds because he feels it's key to draft the players of key positions in the early to mid rounds and to find excellent depth with offensive linemen in the late rounds of any drafts. I haven't checked Shanahan's record on such, but I'm really not sure if he's ever drafted an offensive lineman within the first three rounds of any drafts except Trent Williams.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:53 AM   #246
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

Ryan Clady round 1
Ryan Harris round 3
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:14 PM   #247
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethat001 View Post
Shanahan has historically drafted zone blocking O-linemen well in later rounds. However in his two Redskin drafts, he's waited to draft until the 7th round, and failed on 2 of 3 picks. He needs to draft a couple linemen in earlier rounds this year, don't want to rely on a late 6-7th rounder to protect RG3 in the near future.

2010
1st round - TW - good so far minus drug abuse
7th round - Erik Cook - fail
7th round - Selvish Capers - fail

2011
7th round - Maurice Hurt - shows promise
Great point. I feel like Shanny historically has done well finding WRs in later rounds as well, but hasn't been as successful with the Skins. I wonder how much Bruce Allen is to blame. His draft record in Tampa was terrible. I do feel like last year's draft was our best though. Hopefully, Shanny & Allen are beginning to gel.

Last edited by theJBexperience; 04-08-2012 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 04-08-2012, 03:40 PM   #248
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Originally Posted by T.O.Killa View Post
Ryan Clady round 1
Ryan Harris round 3
So any linemen named Ryan available in the 3rd or 4th?

Looks like the plan is to roll into 2012 with the OL as is. I wouldn't be surprised to see a developmental RT picked in the 3rd or with one of our 4th round picks.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:10 AM   #249
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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Originally Posted by theJBexperience View Post
Great point. I feel like Shanny historically has done well finding WRs in later rounds as well, but hasn't been as successful with the Skins. I wonder how much Bruce Allen is to blame. His draft record in Tampa was terrible. I do feel like last year's draft was our best though. Hopefully, Shanny & Allen are beginning to gel.
...would be awesome to have bugs inside all the offices!!
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:42 AM   #250
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Re: O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

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...would be awesome to have bugs inside all the offices!!
Wrong team with the native American nickname for that one lol
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