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Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

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Old 03-11-2012, 08:24 PM   #76
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Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

BTW-Good post, I agree with a lot of what you wrote and understand and agree with many of your points.
But forgive how unseemly this post looks.
I though I should respond to the separate points you made to prevent them from being all jumbled together.

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Originally Posted by Paintrain View Post
Well maybe that's where we differ. I don't think injuries and Grossman made a huge impact on our WR production last year, I just think we didn't have much talent there. You mentioned Gaffney who had a career season, you're right..at 31 years old. There's very limited upside there. I don't think he will match those numbers and really doubt he will ever exceed them.
Grossman was dead last in the NFL throwing past 20 yards with a passer rating of 25.8.
Undoubted Rex had a negative effective on the production of the WRs.
Armstrong went from 19.8 YPC for close to 800 yards to virtually nothing.

I agree that there is limited upside to Gaffney, didn't imply that there was upside nor that he would match or exceed his numbers.
But, the fact remains that he was productive in this offense.


Quote:
Moss's numbers were impacted by his injuries, true, but when he was healthy he wasn't explosive, didn't threaten defenses and dropped way too many passes. I just think he's pretty much done. He had a great 2010 but for what we are paying him, he needs to replicate those numbers and I don't think he's still capable to do so.
Explosive is subjective, Moss has been used a lot in the slot therefore his deep chances have gone down.
Tana's 'drops' have always been overstated.

Just 2 years ago Tana was top 10 in catches then he breaks his hand and he's done? I just don't follow that logic.

Wouldn't you agree that breaking a hand is a major injury that has an adverse effect when your job is based on catching a ball?

Quote:
I don't think Armstrong, Banks, Austin, Paul, Stallworth or Robinson are anything special. I'd like to keep Paul around because he may develop into a James Thrash type and Robinson for depth and maybe he develops into a deep threat. If we only returned Gaffney, Hankerson & Paul I would be perfectly ok with that.
I'm not sure what you mean by special?
Armstrong proved that when healthy and playing with a QB that has a good deep ball can be a deep threat to the tune of 19.8 YPC I don't know but to me that's something.
19.8 YPC isn't a fluke.

I don't see how losing Moss improves the WR corps, especially for a team that uses and will likely use even more 3 and 4 wide sets.
Building a solid WR corps is essential in those packages.
Look at the Packers for example they still have Donald Driver as part of their WRs corps and I'm sure we can agree that Moss is currently better then Driver?
I don't see how losing Moss would do anything to improve the WRs as a unit.

Quote:
In the red zone we have no targets from our WR corp.
I disagree with this.
I think a more accurate statement is we don't target our WR much in the RZ.
But I clearly recall Armstrong catching a fade in the Giants game #1.
And I've seen Moss catch a quick slant or fadestop/comeback for TDs.

Quote:
Hankerson is 'big' by our standards but he's barely 6'2, not a huge target and he's unproven. I think he will be a good player, perhaps very good but he will develop better with more threats around him.
Hankerson just needs to develop, we don't know what he'll become and I think the team needs to find out.
And pushing him down the depth chart only makes his development more difficult.

Quote:
I don't think we need a 'splash' player here.. I'd be thrilled with Garcon & Royal or Meachem. We've got enough other holes to fill we don't need to go crazy at this position but it does need significant focus.
Garcon had the benefit of being a 2nd or 3rd option in already potent passing offense and yet his production has yet to match Tana who's played in rather difficult circumstances by comparison.
I agree that Royal would be a nice addition to the WRs group.

Quote:
I'd also be fine if we signed Jackson, but I don't think it would be our best use of the money.
I would love it if we signed Jackson but not at the expense of significantly upgrading the RT spot.

Quote:
-Don't be surprised to see us add a feature type back in FA or in the 3rd round. What about Helu?? Shanny has called him on a few occassions a nice change of pace back and he wasn't really drafted to be a 250-300 carry guy. He's not built for that..
I think there is almost zero chance they go after a FA RB that seems completely counter to Mike/Bobby Turner's RB MO.
I do agree that at some point they will draft a RB as a value pick.
But I don't think it will mean anything negative about Helu or Royster; they just like to draft RBs.
I think Hightower, Helu and Royster can all run effectively in Bobby Turner's system.


Quote:
-Don't be shocked if Fletcher doesn't return. He's looking to get PAID and we may be able to get close to his production and save about 10 years. It would suck to lose him but if the defense can get younger for the same price without a huge dropoff it's the smart thing to do.
Oh, I'll be shocked if London doesn't return and I disagree he's looking to get paid.
He's a savvy player that understands his market value, he'll be looking for a fair deal.
I completely disagree that we'll be able to get close to Fletcher's production because 1 he's a beast and equally as important he's one of the few true leaders on the team and he's the leader of the teams best unit.
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Last edited by 30gut; 03-11-2012 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:33 PM   #77
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Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

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Originally Posted by bigm29 View Post
Im all for picking Vincent Jackson. with moss/gaffney/Hankerson behind him we should be fine. We just need to find a starting right tackle somehow and improve overall depth on the line and this offense could be great.

if we bring fletcher back than we have a top 10 defense to pair it with.
Good post, tipping my cap.
You managed to sum up my points in 4 sentences.
I gotta stop drinking wine at dinner.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:01 PM   #78
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Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

Are you sure wasn't he signed by the shegles then released.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:02 PM   #79
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Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

30Gut, I guess we see our talent at WR differently. I don't see upside or improvement coming from Gaffney (although he could replicate '11) or Moss (who I think we could replace his projected production with a younger, cheaper player).

Armstrong fell out of the rotation because he is route limited and can't beat press coverage effectively. He's a legit deep threat but he's got to get off the line first. At 29 this year, again, I think someone younger can replace his projected production.

Our TD passes were either long (30+ yards) or short (10 yards or less). Once we got inside the 20 we had no chance to get into the endzone unless we got inside the 10. To wit, we had 3 touchdown passes last season that were more than 10 yards but less than 30 yards. That has a lot to do with limited redzone options in the WR corp.

I'm all in on developing Hankerson, he may have #1 WR potential with a full season and offseason. Unfortunately he's recovering from hip surgery and will miss most of the offseason program. I don't think we should push him down the depth chart but develop him at the right pace. I've got really high hopes and expectations for him.

Agreed on Garcon to this point about being a secondary option. It's a projection to bump him into the next level of WR, but at his age, with his experience it's a measured risk. He put up good numbers with crappy QB last season so he's not reliant on Manning to produce which is encouraging.

I read a few times late last season they aren't looking at Helu as a feature back and aren't sold on Hightower as a feature as well. They may go into '12 with those three, but I wouldn't be shocked by an addition of another RB to be 'the guy'. Not a big buck Forte/Rice type but an upgrade from what we have.

I'm not trying to push Fletcher out of town but many reports say he's looking to get around $7-$9 mil a year but that's above what we're willing to pay. Tandler said on Twitter earlier that we won't hesitate to talk to other LB at 4:01pm Tuesday if Fletcher isn't signed. I hope he is back but again, won't be shocked if he's not.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:11 PM   #80
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Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
I agree that there is a bunch of safeties. But the issue I mentioned concerned whether they really were all that good. The list you gave is an impressive list of "just a guy."

It may be that Shanny sees Gomes as potentially more than "just a guy."
gomes seems like just a guy, and our safety play was really terrible, so id be okay with average.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:14 PM   #81
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Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

I'm with anyone against signing Garcon. Peyton absolutely made him the player he was. You could say the same about Reggie Wayne, but Garcon isn't even close to the player Wayne is/was.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:17 PM   #82
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I'm with anyone against signing Garcon. Peyton absolutely made him the player he was. You could say the same about Reggie Wayne, but Garcon isn't even close to the player Wayne is/was.
Garcon had a good year with painter my man
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:17 PM   #83
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Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

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I'm with anyone against signing Garcon. Peyton absolutely made him the player he was. You could say the same about Reggie Wayne, but Garcon isn't even close to the player Wayne is/was.
Garcon is not a #1 WR. We need a VJax/Colston type of player. Sounds like we may finally get VJax.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:23 PM   #84
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Garcon is not a #1 WR. We need a VJax/Colston type of player. Sounds like we may finally get VJax.
He is on our team w out VJ imo but I'm glad we will have a big time WR for once
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:24 PM   #85
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Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

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Garcon had a good year with painter my man
Exactly.

Peyton is great no doubt, but he did have some legit receivers. Wayne, Clark, Harrison, etc. I wouldn't put Garçon quite in the class of those guys, but he's not a scrub either.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:27 PM   #86
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Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

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Garcon is not a #1 WR. We need a VJax/Colston type of player. Sounds like we may finally get VJax.
Yup, sounds like we're all in for VJ.

I like it, VJ is a big play guy, and RGIII excels at going deep. Could be deadly.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:33 PM   #87
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Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

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Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection View Post
I'm with anyone against signing Garcon. Peyton absolutely made him the player he was. You could say the same about Reggie Wayne, but Garcon isn't even close to the player Wayne is/was.
G`GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD
16 16 70 947 13.5 87T 6

and that was without Manning...

Last edited by 804_skins; 03-11-2012 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:35 PM   #88
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Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

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Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection View Post
I'm with anyone against signing Garcon. Peyton absolutely made him the player he was. You could say the same about Reggie Wayne, but Garcon isn't even close to the player Wayne is/was.
Didn't Pierre Garcon just have his most productive season without Manning?
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:39 PM   #89
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G`GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD
16 16 70 947 13.5 87T 6

and that was without Manning...
Team was bad but garcon was not
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:42 PM   #90
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Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

I don't know... Curtis Painter is pretty good
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