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Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

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Old 03-20-2012, 12:52 AM   #751
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

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Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
I think our OL as unit is greater then the sum of its parts and is better then most people think.
(Football outsiders ranks our OL: 10th in run blocking 15th in pass blocking)

But, I think you overstate the quality of the individual players and underestimate the quality of our WRs.
I don't think judging our players on how/where they would fit on another is too subjective to be useful in assess their talent.
But even using that criteria I think you would be hard pressed to find a starting role for any of out OL other then Trent Williams and maybe Chris Chester.

Football Outsiders ranks our passing offense:22th
Jabbar Gaffney ranks 33rd in DYAR and 48th in DVOA which is actually ahead of newly signed P.Garcon 81st and 78th respectively.
Interestingly enough the injured S.Moss DYAR/DVOA 80th DYAR/79th DVOA, rival Garcon. And keep in mind this group of WRs dealt with Wrecks Grossman and John Beck getting them the ball; which imo was a major limiting factor.

I think RT more so they any other position on offense was the weakest link on our starting 11.
I'm an oldschool type guy and I think physical superiority at the point of attack is the single most successful way to improve an offense.
I think finding a definitive upgrade at the RT position, more then any else, would be the most beneficial to support a rookie QB.

I have high hopes for Willy too but I would rather not rely on hope as a strategy for improvement when it comes to protect our franchise QB.
There is much more hoping needed at the WR position for us than at the OL starters. We have to hope Moss's age has not caught up with him, that Gaffney can replicate his season, that Hankerson is indeed more than just a one game wonder, that Paul will do something more than just be a blocker, and that Austin and the rest can actually do something. Wille Smith had a longer audition to showcase his stuff and he did quite well; hence, hoping for him is more plausible than hoping for the WR corps to magically transform itself into on that rivals the better ones in the league.


Football Outsiders themselves state that their statistics are not at the point where they have accounted for all of the confounding effects on it. Also, things that occur in the game, but do not hit the official NFL statsheet, are not counted, such as whether the player is facing the opposing #1 corner, being double-teamed. Gaffney, without controlling for variables such as scheme, other receivers taking pressure off of him, play action effectiveness, o-line quality, etc might have indeed performed better than Moss last year, but that does not necessarily prove that he is the better, more valuable player on the field physically.

Also, if we are to use these stats to predict future performance, the real matter is whether past DYAR and DVOA is a good indicator of future DYAR and DVOA values.


Garcon had even worse QBs and a worse supporting cast.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:54 AM   #752
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

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I tend to agree with 30gut our biggest offensive weakness was/is RT. Obviously protecting your franchise QB is paramount but an upgrade at RT also helps the rushing attack significantly. And I'm not even sure this was the off-season to find FA WR talent. V Jackson was too pricey and Garcon has never looked like a consistent, #1 type WR at any point in his career IMO. The Morgan signing makes even less sense to me unless Hankerson's outlook is very questionable within the franchise (because of a serious, early injury). Also, new WRs mean more players trying to learn the offense as opposed to just Griffin trying to learn w/ help from the WRs experienced in the system.

In short, if the line doesn't hold up this season and sacks/pressure are of ongoing concern Mike and Bruce should face some extremely tough questions/criticism. I hope they called it right this time...
WRs who can block is one of the critical factors between having a run that goes the the house and a run that is stopped for ten yards. Josh Morgan fit that bill and provides something in the passing game, unlike the one-dimensional Niles Paul.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:30 PM   #753
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

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Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis View Post
There is much more hoping needed at the WR position for us than at the OL starters. We have to hope Moss's age has not caught up with him, that Gaffney can replicate his season, that Hankerson is indeed more than just a one game wonder, that Paul will do something more than just be a blocker, and that Austin and the rest can actually do something. Wille Smith had a longer audition to showcase his stuff and he did quite well; hence, hoping for him is more plausible than hoping for the WR corps to magically transform itself into on that rivals the better ones in the league.


With the signings of Garcon and Morgan - - and assuming that both make it through training camp uninjured - - you can take two of those WRs you have hopes for and erase them from the Redskins' roster in 2012.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:34 PM   #754
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Hankerson, Garcon, and Morgan will be a great trio with Davis working the seam as well. I'm excited for it.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:36 PM   #755
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

I didn't know that Donte Stallworth's contract was up. He's headed back to New England. Even if Stallworth was on the roster, I doubt if he would have made the roster any. Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Gaffney, Moss, and Banks will definitely be in the mix. I can actually see Banks getting more reps with the offense if Kyle Shanahan can fix Banks into one on one match ups.

David Anderson will probably be released before the preseason.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:38 PM   #756
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

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I didn't know that Donte Stallworth's contract was up. He's headed back to New England. Even if Stallworth was on the roster, I doubt if he would have made the roster any. Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Gaffney, Moss, and Banks will definitely be in the mix. I can actually see Banks getting more reps with the offense if Kyle Shanahan can fix Banks into one on one match ups.

David Anderson will probably be released before the preseason.
No Niles Paul? If I can remember, they were very high on him.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:49 PM   #757
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

I think Gaffney will be gone, Paul has to become more than just a blocker.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:53 PM   #758
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

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I didn't know that Donte Stallworth's contract was up. He's headed back to New England. Even if Stallworth was on the roster, I doubt if he would have made the roster any. Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Gaffney, Moss, and Banks will definitely be in the mix. I can actually see Banks getting more reps with the offense if Kyle Shanahan can fix Banks into one on one match ups.

David Anderson will probably be released before the preseason.
i dont think Banks with be back next year, doesnt add anything to the offense. My WR's would be Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Gaffney, Moss and Paul.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:53 PM   #759
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

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No Niles Paul? If I can remember, they were very high on him.
I forgot about Niles Paul. I've seen highlights of him on youtube making plays in the Nebraska Cornhuskers passing game. I wonder why he didn't get a lot of balls thrown to him last season.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:56 PM   #760
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

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I think Gaffney will be gone, Paul has to become more than just a blocker.
Jabar Gaffney isn't a bad wide receiver. He was our most productive wide out last season. The trade that sent Jeremy Jarmon to Denver for Gaffney was a dirt cheap deal that worked out to our advantage. Plus Gaffney is a solid veteran.

I can't see the Redskins releasing Gaffney.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:59 PM   #761
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

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i dont think Banks with be back next year, doesnt add anything to the offense. My WR's would be Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Gaffney, Moss and Paul.
It wouldn't surprise me if they cut Banks. But the little guy is a good return man. Who else would they put back there on kick offs and punts if they were to waive Banks?
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:10 PM   #762
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

banks has to go. i love watching the lil guy run them back but a lot of guys can return kicks. i don't know how many of our guys returned kicks in college but i'd hope to think on of the wrs is able or one of the rbs is able
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:11 PM   #763
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

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It wouldn't surprise me if they cut Banks. But the little guy is a good return man. Who else would they put back there on kick offs and punts if they were to waive Banks?
Paul returned punts and kicks in college. i agree he is can break one at any time, but he is basically taking up a roster spot to return kicks. i could understand if he also played on the coverage teams too, but he is too small.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:20 PM   #764
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

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Paul returned punts and kicks in college. i agree he is can break one at any time, but he is basically taking up a roster spot to return kicks. i could understand if he also played on the coverage teams too, but he is too small.
Psh, Banks is also our backup QB. 4th string.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:22 PM   #765
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Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

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Psh, Banks is also our backup QB. 4th string.
his td/int ratio is legendary
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