Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Redskins Locker Room


Closed Thread
 
LinkBack (1) Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-20-2012, 08:48 PM   #166
Quietly Dominating the East
 
Hog1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Naples, Florida
Posts: 9,457
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopheadVII View Post
A couple of relevant points that may or may not have been made yet:

1) The NFL's Constitution and bylaws outline the authority of the Executive Committee, the Commissioner, and they authorize the commissioner to create other committees reporting to the commissioner (including the Management Council Executive Committee). The authority of the commissioner is specifically defined (Art. VIII), and nowhere in there does the commissioner have the power to modify the salary cap. He does have the right to recommend other punishment to the Executive Committee, but punishment by the Executive Committee requires the affirmative vote of 3/4 of the clubs.

2) The discipline enacted relies on the clubs involved exhibiting "conduct detrimental to the welfare of the League." This should be interesting to prove given that the Commissioner had the ability to disapprove the relevant contracts at the time and didn't.

3) The CBA explicitly states (Art XIII, Sec. 1) that the salary cap will the same amount for each club.

4) The NFLPA agreed to not dispute the penalty because DeMaurice Smith was bribed with his job. He is up for re-election this month, and seeing the salary cap go down from the fixed amount last year would all but ensure he's not re-elected. The Salary Cap is calculated for a given year based on projected revenues - and the total cash spending requirement across all teams is adjusted later based on actual revenues. Since the League makes this projection, they threatened to lower the salary cap in 2012 if the NFLPA didn't accept the penalties on the 'Skins and Cowboys.
NICE first post HH and welcome to the WP!
BTW, I think it is a little to interesting for the league to allow to fully come to light. In THAT light I think JoeRedskin is probably correct. There will be some quiet negotiations and subsequent settlement.....HTTR
__________________
Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios
thankyou Joe.......
“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs
Hog1 is offline  

Advertisements
Old 03-20-2012, 08:55 PM   #167
Pro Bowl
 
Giantone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,237
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Yeah, I probably haven't been involved in the settlement of about a thousand or two claims in my 20 year career as an attorney - so I probably have no idea what I am talking about.
Cheer up ,there is always talk radio.
__________________
....DISCLAIMER: All of my posts/threads are my expressed typed opinion and the reader is not to assume these comments are absolute fact, law, or truth unless otherwise stated in said post/thread.
Giantone is offline  
Old 03-20-2012, 09:01 PM   #168
Pro Bowl
 
Giantone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,237
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopheadVII View Post


4) The NFLPA agreed to not dispute the penalty because DeMaurice Smith was bribed with his job. He is up for re-election this month, and seeing the salary cap go down from the fixed amount last year would all but ensure he's not re-elected. The Salary Cap is calculated for a given year based on projected revenues - and the total cash spending requirement across all teams is adjusted later based on actual revenues. Since the League makes this projection, they threatened to lower the salary cap in 2012 if the NFLPA didn't accept the penalties on the 'Skins and Cowboys.

again, what proof do you have that this took place,you have used the words" bribed and threatened" and have not shown one once of proof.
__________________
....DISCLAIMER: All of my posts/threads are my expressed typed opinion and the reader is not to assume these comments are absolute fact, law, or truth unless otherwise stated in said post/thread.
Giantone is offline  
Old 03-20-2012, 09:10 PM   #169
Gamebreaker
 
CRedskinsRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pasadena, Md
Age: 47
Posts: 12,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Yeah, I probably haven't been involved in the settlement of about a thousand or two claims in my 20 year career as an attorney - so I probably have no idea what I am talking about.
I think I will permalink this post! Sarcastic context can easily be ignored.
__________________
Dirtbag59, sending songs to oblivion 1 writer at a time.
CRedskinsRule is offline  
Old 03-20-2012, 09:12 PM   #170
Special Teams
 
Brody81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 499
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantone View Post
again, what proof do you have that this took place,you have used the words" bribed and threatened" and have not shown one once of proof.
Again, Why are you here?

It's time to stop feeding this idiot.. Maybe if we ignore him, he will go away..
Brody81 is offline  
Old 03-20-2012, 09:17 PM   #171
Contains football related knowledge
 
JoeRedskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Second Star On The Right
Age: 51
Posts: 8,849
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantone View Post
Cheer up ,there is always talk radio.
True, but then I'd run into you all the time.
__________________
You aren't worth the water in my spit but, maybe, just maybe, you're worth the lead in my shotgun.
JoeRedskin is offline  
Old 03-20-2012, 09:29 PM   #172
Pro Bowl
 
Giantone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,237
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
True, but then I'd run into you all the time.

As the owner I make it a policy to never call my own station.:headbange
__________________
....DISCLAIMER: All of my posts/threads are my expressed typed opinion and the reader is not to assume these comments are absolute fact, law, or truth unless otherwise stated in said post/thread.
Giantone is offline  
Old 03-20-2012, 09:31 PM   #173
Pro Bowl
 
Giantone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,237
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brody81 View Post
Again, Why are you here?

It's time to stop feeding this idiot.. Maybe if we ignore him, he will go away..

.....................:yeahright
__________________
....DISCLAIMER: All of my posts/threads are my expressed typed opinion and the reader is not to assume these comments are absolute fact, law, or truth unless otherwise stated in said post/thread.
Giantone is offline  
Old 03-20-2012, 09:53 PM   #174
Contains football related knowledge
 
JoeRedskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Second Star On The Right
Age: 51
Posts: 8,849
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopheadVII View Post
A couple of relevant points that may or may not have been made yet:

1) The NFL's Constitution and bylaws outline the authority of the Executive Committee, the Commissioner, and they authorize the commissioner to create other committees reporting to the commissioner (including the Management Council Executive Committee). The authority of the commissioner is specifically defined (Art. VIII), and nowhere in there does the commissioner have the power to modify the salary cap. He does have the right to recommend other punishment to the Executive Committee, but punishment by the Executive Committee requires the affirmative vote of 3/4 of the clubs.

2) The discipline enacted relies on the clubs involved exhibiting "conduct detrimental to the welfare of the League." This should be interesting to prove given that the Commissioner had the ability to disapprove the relevant contracts at the time and didn't.

3) The CBA explicitly states (Art XIII, Sec. 1) that the salary cap will the same amount for each club.

4) The NFLPA agreed to not dispute the penalty because DeMaurice Smith was bribed with his job. He is up for re-election this month, and seeing the salary cap go down from the fixed amount last year would all but ensure he's not re-elected. The Salary Cap is calculated for a given year based on projected revenues - and the total cash spending requirement across all teams is adjusted later based on actual revenues. Since the League makes this projection, they threatened to lower the salary cap in 2012 if the NFLPA didn't accept the penalties on the 'Skins and Cowboys.
Very nice. Good stuff. Point 4 involves some speculation, but certainly not unreasonable given the grounds you state. Not sure a decline in the salary cap would "ensure he is not re-eleted" but it certainly would not help him.

Welcome to the board. I think you and I will get along well.
__________________
You aren't worth the water in my spit but, maybe, just maybe, you're worth the lead in my shotgun.
JoeRedskin is offline  
Old 03-21-2012, 12:52 AM   #175
The Starter
 
GoSkins!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Yorktown, Va
Age: 45
Posts: 1,587
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

edit (double post)
__________________
Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. A. Einstien
GoSkins! is offline  
Old 03-21-2012, 12:53 AM   #176
The Starter
 
GoSkins!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Yorktown, Va
Age: 45
Posts: 1,587
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

This debate between JR and Giantone reminds me of the arguments I used to have with my ex wife. She couldn't make a valid point so she just kept arguing louder and louder, over and over again. The worst part was that if, by pure chance, things ended up working out so that she was right, she wasn't smart enough to know that she just got lucky. When she got lucky enough to guess correctly about something, it reinforced her self serving reality that her personal opinion, or even her blind guessing, was some sort of keen insight or talent she could take credit for.

I usually think both these guys are good debaters, but JR clearly has this one won. It is time for G to stop being stubborn and realize that he has been beat here. Some NFL lawyers may someday make greater arguments than Joe Redskins has, but Giantone's arguments clearly are not better.
__________________
Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. A. Einstien
GoSkins! is offline  
Old 03-21-2012, 05:50 AM   #177
Pro Bowl
 
Giantone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,237
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSkins! View Post
I usually think both these guys are good debaters, but JR clearly has this one won. It is time for G to stop being stubborn and realize that he has been beat here. Some NFL lawyers may someday make greater arguments than Joe Redskins has, but Giantone's arguments clearly are not better.
Mine are not better I admitt that but a good Lawyer must admit that there is always a possibility of another theory or he would'nt know how to attack the situation, or defend it.All of us don't know the true facts as I have stated to and admitted before but in my time dealing with lawyers I have found it's the ones that think I know nothing that end up being the most upset.
JR is obviously good at what he does and at no time have I ever said anything other wise.All I ask is that some fans here think a little with their head before their heart in a situation of this nature. Does anyone else think the all 28 "other " teams did'nt have lawyers ...or the NFL does'nt have lawyers ,...even the NFLPA has lawyers, and nobody else came up with the argument that JR did,and in fact maybe they did,noone knows is my point.
If the Skins are right as JR says, then I beleive you attack from day one and take it public.Just don't win show the world what the NFL has tried to do,if you go to arbitration or do nothing ....to me and I said it before you're admitting guilt.
__________________
....DISCLAIMER: All of my posts/threads are my expressed typed opinion and the reader is not to assume these comments are absolute fact, law, or truth unless otherwise stated in said post/thread.
Giantone is offline  
Old 03-21-2012, 07:40 AM   #178
Special Teams
 
HoopheadVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 158
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantone View Post
again, what proof do you have that this took place,you have used the words" bribed and threatened" and have not shown one once of proof.
Unfortunately, sice I have less than 10 posts, I can't post links - so you'll have to copy and paste into your browser:

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/nflpa-agreed-to-cowboysredskins-salary-cap-sanctions/

Key part:

So why did the union agree? The sources explain that the NFL offered to help pump up the 2012 team-by-team salary cap in exchange for the union’s agreement to remove cap money from the Cowboys and Redskins. One source said that, without the NFLPA’s agreement regarding the removal of cap room from the Cowboys and Redskins, the 2012 salary cap would have been in the range of $116 million per team. (One source said that the number at one point was presented to the union as being a paltry $113.5 million.) With the players agreeing to remove $46 million from the Cowboys and Redskins, the league agreed to a massaging of the salary and benefit numbers in order to get the 2012 salary cap up to $120.6 million. (The recalculation also kicked in some additional money that otherwise would not have been devoted to salary and benefits for 2012.)

Thus, the union had no real option. Without consenting to the reduction of the Redskins and Cowboys cap numbers, the unadjusted cap limit would have dropped, for the first time ever.

And with NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith up for re-election this month, he quite possibly would not have been re-elected.
HoopheadVII is offline  
Old 03-21-2012, 07:44 AM   #179
The Starter
 
GoSkins!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Yorktown, Va
Age: 45
Posts: 1,587
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantone View Post
Mine are not better I admitt that but a good Lawyer must admit that there is always a possibility of another theory or he would'nt know how to attack the situation, or defend it.All of us don't know the true facts as I have stated to and admitted before but in my time dealing with lawyers I have found it's the ones that think I know nothing that end up being the most upset.
JR is obviously good at what he does and at no time have I ever said anything other wise.All I ask is that some fans here think a little with their head before their heart in a situation of this nature. Does anyone else think the all 28 "other " teams did'nt have lawyers ...or the NFL does'nt have lawyers ,...even the NFLPA has lawyers, and nobody else came up with the argument that JR did,and in fact maybe they did,noone knows is my point.
If the Skins are right as JR says, then I beleive you attack from day one and take it public.Just don't win show the world what the NFL has tried to do,if you go to arbitration or do nothing ....to me and I said it before you're admitting guilt.
I understand your arguments. However, it looks to me like the NFL owners probably have consulted their lawyers and realize they are on shaky ground. This seems obvious by the timing of the punishment. They needed to find a way to stop the free agents for 2012 from signing with the skins and cowboys. They accomplished that. They will take that for now and hope their punishment, or some part of it, stands up over time. If nothing else, they got to piss off the guys who didn't go along with the program and screw up their 2012 off season plans.
__________________
Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. A. Einstien
GoSkins! is offline  
Old 03-21-2012, 08:03 AM   #180
Special Teams
 
HoopheadVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 158
Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopheadVII View Post
A couple of relevant points that may or may not have been made yet:

1) The NFL's Constitution and bylaws outline the authority of the Executive Committee, the Commissioner, and they authorize the commissioner to create other committees reporting to the commissioner (including the Management Council Executive Committee). The authority of the commissioner is specifically defined (Art. VIII), and nowhere in there does the commissioner have the power to modify the salary cap. He does have the right to recommend other punishment to the Executive Committee, but punishment by the Executive Committee requires the affirmative vote of 3/4 of the clubs.

2) The discipline enacted relies on the clubs involved exhibiting "conduct detrimental to the welfare of the League." This should be interesting to prove given that the Commissioner had the ability to disapprove the relevant contracts at the time and didn't.
Now, one problem that the 'Skins may have is that the Commissioner does have the explicit authority to take away draft picks for 2) above. It would be approximately 87 times worse to give up the shiny new #2 pick in the upcoming draft than it would be to live with reduced cap space for two years. Creative restructuring can push cap hits from '12 and '13 into '14 - when the salary cap is expected to go up with a new TV deal.

Basically, if the 'Skins go nuclear, the Commissioner has a pretty nasty nuclear option himself.
HoopheadVII is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.34794 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25