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Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

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Old 03-26-2012, 12:40 PM   #346
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Playing Devil's Advocate, the best argument I can make for the NFL at this point is this - The contract dumping had one and only one goal in mind - to circumvent a reinstated cap. If no cap were reinstated, the move would have no effect whatsoever b/c the monies would have already been paid out and the effect was purely a bookkeepping measure that mattered only in the determination of a team's cap expense. Thus, the move was aimed at gaining a competitive advantage if a cap was reinstated. Had no cap been reinstated, no penalty would have been forthcoming. B/c a cap was reinstated, and b/c the moves were intended to have an effect on the reinstated cap, it was appropriate to levy the penalties now as opposed to the time the actions were taken.

I still don't think that flies for all the reasons stated previously. Particularly for the reasons set out in FRPLG ealier posts about the intended effects of an uncapped year. Essentially, even if what you say is true NFL- so what? Wasn't that a negotiated risk you chose to accept when you terminated the 2006 CBA (i.e. that some owners might take actions that would have effects well beyond the initial uncapped year)? In effect, the Skins & Cowboys bet that the cap would be reinstated and performed the contract dumping during a period when they were legally allowed to do so. As I said - so what?

As the media has noted, the whole thing stinks to high heaven. DS & JJ may not be angels, but, right now, Mara is sounding like a poor little rich boy who didn't get his way.
I have been sort of a Goodell apologist but as I stated above I think this really makes him look bad because the one thing a good commissioner is supposed to be able to do is help the owners work TOGETHER from a business standpoint while maintaining a positive competitive environment from a product standpoint. That's hard but he really needed to back the other owners off the ledge on this. It's baffling how these guys are apparently oblivious to the ramifications of these actions. If they forced Goodell to do it then he is weak and if he wholeheartedly agrees with them then he is an idiot.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:49 PM   #347
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

To some degree, Goodell may have had no voice in this and is now stuck defending a steaming pile of crap. From what I have read, it seems that it was the Management Council's decision and the same council approached the NFLPA. Maybe they did it through Goodell and, if so, I'd agree he should have said "Hey, have you really thought this through?". At the same time, in light of Mara's comments, the owners response may have been, "It's a done deal, make it so."
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:49 PM   #348
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

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NY won't get any punishment, they're not involved except w Mara, and this not relevant to their franchise. The question will be how to fix what's been done. If this is overturned, do we get $1.6 million extra, etc.

I'd say optimistically -- if they return cap space, it would be great to have it for next year anyway. This year will be difficult anyway with a new QB, and by next year we would be prepared to make a more serious playoff run.
I expect all the CAP money space back meaning the 18mill they took. For our troubles, the way it went down, how a team owner in our own division handled it, and the loss of players that could have been gotten with the 18mill, I'd like to see the Arbiture give both teams a compensatory pick at the end of RD 1. I think thats fair. We probably would have been able to sign 2 or 3 other players with the 18mill and now there is slim picking so giving the Skins another pick at the end of RD1 seems fair.

If for some reason they can't give back the 18mill due to other teams having used it then give us an extra pick for the first 4 RDS.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:06 PM   #349
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

What I find even more funny are the idiots who post comments after the articles like this. The people who show how stupid they are by trying to defend what Mara and the league essentially did. Calling both teams cheaters. Saying we broke the rules.

What rules? there was no CBA or CAP. How by not agreeing to collusion? Basically one has to admit there was no CBA rule so there had to be an agreement amongst the owners (which is collusion) and the agreement being illegal washes everything after. Our spending is a wash because the original agreement was illegal.

^ what morons can't figure this out? what part of their pea brain does not allow them to realize there was no CBA and that the original agreement was against the law?

Then there is the cheating part. How did we cheat? we had to have done something illegal or immoral, or something the other teams could not do.

1- other teams did exactly what we did just not to the same amount.

2- if anything the AGREEMENT was a form of cheating. The owners were trying to cheat the players out of money. 30 owners cheated, 30 owners violated the labor law, yet the 2 who chose not to do anything illegal are being punished? Thats like 5 kids agreeing to steal candy from the store and at the last minute 2 decide not to. Instead of the 3 getting punished for stealing society is going to let the 3 beat up on the 2 for not keeping to the agreement. WTF?
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:07 PM   #350
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

No way in hell we get a 1st round pick. All damages are, at this point, somewhat speculative in terms of asserting certain UFA's would have signed with us and not others. Further, what UFA out there was worth a 1st round pick? Jackson? maybe, but, by all accounts we didn't make a push for him.

Maybe, maybe, we get a mid round pick or two from an arbiter. I certainly can't see "The Owners/NFL" entering into a settlement that gets us picks considering that they wanted to strip us of picks. I am pretty sure they would draw a line in the sand on that one as a settlement point. Given the speculative nature of the damages, even if we could win picks through formal legal action (not arbitration), and IMHO, it would take some time for the award to be finalized through the appellate process and so the owners could make a pretty good stand on that issue.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:14 PM   #351
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

I wonder how much the NFL owners victory over the players in the CBA give birth to the arrogance that led to this mess?
Rule 1 in the Godell and Mara rule book- 'Do as I say not as I do'.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:24 PM   #352
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

In order of likelihood:

1. We get nothing overturned. Senator Durbin gets involved.

2. Private settlement. This year's penalty remains. 2nd half of penalty, next year's is waived.

3. Completely overturned. No compensatory picks. Senator Durbin gets involved.

4. Completely overturned. Compensatory picks awarded. Issue dropped with stern warning from NFLPA.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:13 PM   #353
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

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Playing Devil's Advocate, the best argument I can make for the NFL at this point is this - The contract dumping had one and only one goal in mind - to circumvent a reinstated cap. If no cap were reinstated, the move would have no effect whatsoever b/c the monies would have already been paid out and the effect was purely a bookkeepping measure that mattered only in the determination of a team's cap expense. Thus, the move was aimed at gaining a competitive advantage if a cap was reinstated. Had no cap been reinstated, no penalty would have been forthcoming. B/c a cap was reinstated, and b/c the moves were intended to have an effect on the reinstated cap, it was appropriate to levy the penalties now as opposed to the time the actions were taken.

I still don't think that flies for all the reasons stated previously. Particularly for the reasons set out in FRPLG ealier posts about the intended effects of an uncapped year. Essentially, even if what you say is true NFL- so what? Wasn't that a negotiated risk you chose to accept when you terminated the 2006 CBA (i.e. that some owners might take actions that would have effects well beyond the initial uncapped year)? In effect, the Skins & Cowboys bet that the cap would be reinstated and performed the contract dumping during a period when they were legally allowed to do so. As I said - so what?

As the media has noted, the whole thing stinks to high heaven. DS & JJ may not be angels, but, right now, Mara is sounding like a poor little rich boy who didn't get his way.
At this point I'm probably a couple pages behind but ..... to play off your "devils advocate" then why not just deny the contracts? Why not deny them and tell both teams that until the new CBA was agreed upon then all contracts would essentially continue as they are in place until an agreement is reached. Then new contracts could be signed.

They couldn't. Why? because had the league came out and said "no we are not approving these deals" the NFLPA would have had thier proof that there was collusion. So the league approves the deals to protect their arses, then later gets the NFLPA to agree not to file a law suit against them or they will lose money (bribery, or strong arming), then proceeds to punish whom they wanted to figuring there would be no reprercussions. How they didn't think the two teams would not fight this is beyond me. But their essential goal was accomplished and that was to hinder both teams this year from purchasing up everything.

So, now they should give us our money back (which I'm betting they won't have a problem with since they already hindered us in FA) and should give both teams no less then 1st or 2nd round compensatory picks for their actions. Their failing to notify the owners, their failing to bring it to an owners meeting, their failing to allow the two teams to defend why they did what they did, and for not letting all the other owners hear this info and vote on how the situation should be handled. Part of the biggest issue is there is a conflict of interest with Mara over seeing the whole punishment. He should have stepped aside and let someone else hear it and it should have been sent to the owners meeting to be heard and voted on. Not last minute deals and stealing from two owners who chose not to break the law.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:16 PM   #354
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

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Like what was stated in the piece, the NFL needs to make this go away as soon as possible, reinstate that cap space for the 'skins and 'boys, and never speak another word about this. The longer they let it go, the worse it's going to get.
I think the Commitee figured the two owners would not open a can of worms against the whole league. They figured the two teams would take their punishment and everyone would be happy.

Now they have to be embarrassed. Most of the media and fans are against what they did. Your right they need to settle it fast or it's going to get ugly and could cost a ton more money then their trivial 46mill they took from both teams.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:20 PM   #355
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

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No way in hell we get a 1st round pick. All damages are, at this point, somewhat speculative in terms of asserting certain UFA's would have signed with us and not others. Further, what UFA out there was worth a 1st round pick? Jackson? maybe, but, by all accounts we didn't make a push for him.

Maybe, maybe, we get a mid round pick or two from an arbiter. I certainly can't see "The Owners/NFL" entering into a settlement that gets us picks considering that they wanted to strip us of picks. I am pretty sure they would draw a line in the sand on that one as a settlement point. Given the speculative nature of the damages, even if we could win picks through formal legal action (not arbitration), and IMHO, it would take some time for the award to be finalized through the appellate process and so the owners could make a pretty good stand on that issue.
Don't get me wrong I too think we won't get the draft picks. I'm saying they should have to give us a pick. I doubt it happens. I'd presume we'd just get our money back. But because of the way it was handled and whom handled it, and how it was not passed on to the owners meeting for discussion, should be enough right there to warrant someone stepping down from their position. However I'll settle for a draft pick.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:23 PM   #356
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

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I think the Commitee figured the two owners would not open a can of worms against the whole league. They figured the two teams would take their punishment and everyone would be happy.

Now they have to be embarrassed. Most of the media and fans are against what they did. Your right they need to settle it fast or it's going to get ugly and could cost a ton more money then their trivial 46mill they took from both teams.
I know you know this, but just to clarify the real issue here. They didnt take the money from the Redskins or the Cowboys. They took it from the players that the teams would have signed. Ala, the 1.6 million to the other teams to keep the NFLPA quiet about the obvious collusion.

I feel that a crime was committed against the players and the union is not protecting them. Smith should pursue, or the government should pursue.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:28 PM   #357
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

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Old 03-26-2012, 03:00 PM   #358
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

Looks like compensatory picks will be given out today during the owner's meeting.
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:00 PM   #359
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

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I know you know this, but just to clarify the real issue here. They didnt take the money from the Redskins or the Cowboys. They took it from the players that the teams would have signed. Ala, the 1.6 million to the other teams to keep the NFLPA quiet about the obvious collusion.

I feel that a crime was committed against the players and the union is not protecting them. Smith should pursue, or the government should pursue.

In essense I see it as the Skins and Boys money but your right it would have been used to sign players with.

The NFLPA should have stood their ground. If the Exec Committee could essentially keep the CAP as it was then why threaten to the NFLPA to lower it unless you are trying to bribe or strong arm them into agreeing to the punishment and not filing a law suit?

If the CAP was going to be lowered due to budget constraints then the Exec Committe would not be able to keep it at 120 mill either way. Our 18mill was not placed in any position to keep the CAP from dropping. It was given to other teams so they would have spending money. and most didn't use the money. It's still sitting in their coffers.
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:01 PM   #360
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Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

I still don't understand how the Bears dumping almost $35 mil of Pepper's salary is not seen as a competitive advantage.
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