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A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Old 03-27-2012, 11:10 AM   #31
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Originally Posted by SBXVII View Post
I think

1- everyone is saying RG3 fits our scheme so there should not be a whole lot of changes.

2- one media source I was listening to mentioned that with Garçon, AA, Moss, and Gaffney because of the speed and RG3 we should be able to add a little spread offense wrinkle.

3- MS and KS just don't seem the type to change what their doing for their QBs sake, ie; McNabb, Beck. I think they will keep the offense the same but use RG3's speed with a lot more roll outs and bootlegs. That should open up the down field shots since the defense will have to put one guy to shadow RG3.
This is the biggest misconception of the Shanahans that is perpetuated by fans and talking heads that don't know what they are talking about.

Quick history lesson on Mike Shanahan's history with QB.
John Elway-strengths were rolling out, athleticism, making plays on the move
Brian Greise-strengths (loosely used term) were dropping back, pocket passer
Jake Plummer-strengths were rolling out, play action, deep throwbacks
Jay Cutler-strenghts were setting up in shotgun, reading pre snap, pocket passer

Each time he had a different QB, he adapted his offense to meet their strengths and had success with all of them. So what's happened in DC? He got a QB whose strengths (deep ball, mobility, creating plays outside the scope of the offense) were no longer strengths in McNabb and a QB whose strengths (again, loosely used term) are as a pocket passer executing the offense in a precise manner who sabotages his own success by poor decision making and ball security issues in Grossman. In the 3 game Beckoning, we saw a slightly different offense, more boots, more rollouts than we saw with Grossman. The biggest issue is none of them have been any good. Adaptability of the offense or a willingness to 'change' the offense is not an issue, it's talk radio show fodder.

To the question from the OP, I think it will be a new look for us because we will see more boots, more designed rollouts, more spread concepts but the core of the offense will be the same but better.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:19 AM   #32
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Originally Posted by SBXVII View Post
3- MS and KS just don't seem the type to change what their doing for their QBs sake, ie; McNabb, Beck. I think they will keep the offense the same but use RG3's speed with a lot more roll outs and bootlegs. That should open up the down field shots since the defense will have to put one guy to shadow RG3.
Why do people keep saying crap like this when history shows otherwise? They've adapted their system to each QB they've had in the system.

Plummer, Griese, Cutler, Grossman, McNabb, and Beck.


I mean, didn't you notice we did very little roll out with Rex at the helm, but as soon as Beck came in, we started bootlegging a bit? Come on man, keep up.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:20 AM   #33
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Why do people keep saying crap like this when history shows otherwise? They've adapted their system to each QB they've had in the system.

Plummer, Griese, Cutler, Grossman, McNabb, and Beck.


I mean, didn't you notice we did very little roll out with Rex at the helm, but as soon as Beck came in, we started bootlegging a bit? Come on man, keep up.
You can kinda tell people who actually are football fans and those who are talk radio fans, can't you?
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:02 PM   #34
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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You mean for what you want to see or what you expect to see?
It maybe a sublime a distinction but I think the Brees/Payton relationship is different from what I'm suggesting with a rookie QB.
Brees chose what he liked from within Payton's playbook.
I'm thinking more along the lines of adding to the playbook based on Griffin's college offense ala Rob Chudzinski and Cam Newton.
I expect and want to see the same offense with RG3 at least as a rookie.

However I would be more then fine with some 3 or 4 wide shotgun sets with a couple run-option-pass thrown in there. I still think though that if the Shanahan experiment fails in 2 or 3 years then the next coach should come in and build a new offense from the ground up with major input from RG3 or whatever they did with Chudzinski and Newton in Carolina.

Either way I'm very comfortable with the idea of RG3 going under center and giving the other team a steady dose of bootlegs, zone runs, and play action fakes. In fact as I've been saying all along those bootlegs with RG3 are going to help open some great cutback lanes for our backs on zone runs.
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:15 PM   #35
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

Plain and simple, I just want to see the 'skins score 30+ points a ball game.
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:51 PM   #36
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Plain and simple, I just want to see the 'skins score 30+ points a ball game.
how nice would that be
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:02 PM   #37
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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I expect and want to see the same offense with RG3 at least as a rookie.

However I would be more then fine with some 3 or 4 wide shotgun sets with a couple run-option-pass thrown in there. I still think though that if the Shanahan experiment fails in 2 or 3 years then the next coach should come in and build a new offense from the ground up with major input from RG3 or whatever they did with Chudzinski and Newton in Carolina.

Either way I'm very comfortable with the idea of RG3 going under center and giving the other team a steady dose of bootlegs, zone runs, and play action fakes. In fact as I've been saying all along those bootlegs with RG3 are going to help open some great cutback lanes for our backs on zone runs.
I'm torn.
I love Mike's Denver WCO.
When I think of the Mike's DWCO (bootleg/bootswap) I wonder if Kyle can ever fully commit to the run focused football that style of offense requires.


Kyle playcalling pallet has always leaned towards the pass.
And I'm not saying the above as good/bad value judgement but as an observation.
As long as Kyle is the OC I think we'll always pass the ball more.
And if we're going to pass more then why not run more spread?
Kyle has already shown some spread looks, why not take the offense further in that direction like the Bills, Bengals, Patriots and Packers?
And if Kyle is gonna add spread components why not bring them in from Baylor's offense?
Particularly the 5 wide empty sets.

Question:
Do you think Cam would have been as productive and dynamic in a traditional pro-style offense?
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:11 PM   #38
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
I'm torn.
I love Mike's Denver WCO.
When I think of the Mike's DWCO (bootleg/bootswap) I wonder if Kyle can ever fully commit to the run focused football that style of offense requires.


Kyle playcalling pallet has always leaned towards the pass.
And I'm not saying the above as good/bad value judgement but as an observation.
As long as Kyle is the OC I think we'll always pass the ball more.
And if we're going to pass more then why not run more spread?
Kyle has already shown some spread looks, why not take the offense further in that direction like the Bills, Bengals, Patriots and Packers?
And if Kyle is gonna add spread components why not bring them in from Baylor's offense?
Particularly the 5 wide empty sets.

Question:
Do you think Cam would have been as productive and dynamic in a traditional pro-style offense?
Oh that reminds me, if the plan is to use the offense Kyle used in Houston with Schuab with lots of traditional 3-5-7 step drops then no, I don't want the same.

However if Kyle incorporates more of his Dad's concepts, like doing stuff off bootlegs and focusing on establishing the run then I would definitely want to see the same offense.

I mean either way Kyle is going to call the plays the question is which style is he going to use. Personally I imagine that he's going to want to move RG3 around and the reason it was more traditional in Houston (and Washington to an extent) was due to Schuab's (Grossman's) limited mobility.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:59 PM   #39
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintrain View Post
This is the biggest misconception of the Shanahans that is perpetuated by fans and talking heads that don't know what they are talking about.

Quick history lesson on Mike Shanahan's history with QB.
John Elway-strengths were rolling out, athleticism, making plays on the move
Brian Greise-strengths (loosely used term) were dropping back, pocket passer
Jake Plummer-strengths were rolling out, play action, deep throwbacks
Jay Cutler-strenghts were setting up in shotgun, reading pre snap, pocket passer

Each time he had a different QB, he adapted his offense to meet their strengths and had success with all of them. So what's happened in DC? He got a QB whose strengths (deep ball, mobility, creating plays outside the scope of the offense) were no longer strengths in McNabb and a QB whose strengths (again, loosely used term) are as a pocket passer executing the offense in a precise manner who sabotages his own success by poor decision making and ball security issues in Grossman. In the 3 game Beckoning, we saw a slightly different offense, more boots, more rollouts than we saw with Grossman. The biggest issue is none of them have been any good. Adaptability of the offense or a willingness to 'change' the offense is not an issue, it's talk radio show fodder.

To the question from the OP, I think it will be a new look for us because we will see more boots, more designed rollouts, more spread concepts but the core of the offense will be the same but better.
Bruce Allen was on Moving The Chains today, and Pat Kirwan hit on some of these same basic points when talking about how Shanahan has changed up his scheme to fit different QBs over the years.

SiriusXM NFL Radio | Facebook

There's a link to a clip from the interview on NFL Radio's FB page
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:19 PM   #40
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

Love the new regime.....
Can't wait to see what they can do this season
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:57 PM   #41
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

Former Shanahan coordinator says RG3 "is going to fit perfect" with Redskins - Washington Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Kubiak
“Mike likes to run the ball – everything starts with the run – and likes to move his quarterback,”...“I don’t know that I’ve seen one move like this guy in a while. He’s very smart. This guy is going to fit perfect with what they want to do – if they take him, of course.”

He expects Mike and Kyle to tweak their offense to suit Griffin’s athleticism, similarly to how he and Mike adjusted when quarterback Jake Plummer joined the Broncos in 2003. That could mean adding elements of the zone-read running game in which Griffin excelled at Baylor.

“I worked for Mike all those years, and whatever we have, we’re going to find a way to make him successful,” Kubiak said. “Mike is very capable of being flexible and doing what a player does best. I’m sure if he ends up taking him, he’s going to study that portion of the offense he has run.”
Kubiak interview with Campbell seems to fit these scenario's:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
o the core offense/formations will remain unchanged but the playcalling balance will return and the offense will look more like Houston and the traditional Mike S. Denver WCO with a heavy focus on stretch running and boot-action passing?

o the offense formations will change and our offense will adopt and feature some of Baylor's formations and concepts, like they way the Panthers added some of Auburns formations, plays and concepts?
Kubiak's 1st sentence struck me though: "Mike likes to run the ball – everything starts with the run –"

I wonder why he chose to mention Mike as opposed to Kyle?
Because if you look at the playcalling tendecies between Mike and Kyle, especially pass/run ratio, Kyle doesn't share Mike's run focus.


I love Kubiak's last sentence because it kinda opens the door to the possibility of more spread elements and maybe even some zone-read.

It also naturally leads to this question:

What specifically (formation/play concepts) does Griffin do best from Baylor's offense?
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:00 PM   #42
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
Former Shanahan coordinator says RG3 "is going to fit perfect" with Redskins - Washington Times

Kubiak's 1st sentence struck: "Mike likes to run the ball – everything starts with the run –"

I wonder why he chose to mention Mike as opposed to Kyle?
Because if you look at the playcalling tendecies between Mike and Kyle, especially pass/run ratio, Kyle doesn't share Mike's run focus.

I love Kubiak's last sentence because it kinda opens the door to the possibility of more spread elements and maybe even some zone-read.

It also naturally leads to this question:

What specifically (formation/play concepts) does Griffin do best from Baylor's offense?
Either it was the way the question was asked or Kubiak identifies more with the Elder Shanahan as a fellow head coach and colleague.

Or secret option C he resents Kyle
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:06 PM   #43
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

On the topic of this thread, I'm going to choose option C: our current offense already fits RG3 pretty well.

So I don't think Kyle will do anything with his offense that he wouldn't have done under normal circumstances unrelated to the new quarterback, but I think he's justified in keeping things similar.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:09 PM   #44
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 View Post
Either it was the way the question was asked or Kubiak identifies more with the Elder Shanahan as a fellow head coach and colleague.

Or secret option C he resents Kyle
Kubiak isn't the only one to mention Mike when refering to the offense.
But when people mention Mike as opposed to Kyle it creates a false assumption about the offense.
The assumption is that because Mike like to run the ball that the Redskins are a run oriented offense when in reality the opposite is true.
Under Kyle the Redskins have been a passing team.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:13 PM   #45
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
On the topic of this thread, I'm going to choose option C: our current offense already fits RG3 pretty well.

So I don't think Kyle will do anything with his offense that he wouldn't have done under normal circumstances unrelated to the new quarterback, but I think he's justified in keeping things similar.
Here's a question I asked Dbag earlier in the thread:

Do you think Cam would have been as productive in a traditional pro-style offense?

I should have lettered or numbered the options but I think you're leaning more towards option A because option C involves a shift in the playcalling tendency towards more running or a return towards balance.

Option A is basically status quo.

An overlooked question from the OP: Do you think Griffin they'll feature Griffin specific RZ packages?
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Last edited by 30gut; 03-27-2012 at 08:18 PM.
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