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A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Old 05-26-2012, 02:56 PM   #91
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Originally Posted by Mechanix544 View Post
I really believe that we will see 20 or maybe 30% of our plays from the shotgun this year............
You probably mean more then 20-30% of our plays from the shotgun because that % is actually less then we ran last year.(I've looked it up before its available on Fox stats)

I understand that you want to see more shotugn, I do too.

I just wonder what makes you think Kyle would chnage his offense that much?
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:03 PM   #92
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

I think it might be a tad easier to dissect defenses from the shotgun, and that paired with his athleticism could open passing lanes even more. If we did run that much shotgun last year, it sure didnt seem like it. But I could see an increase, is basically what I am saying. I dont know the percentages, but with the fast WR's and the type of cranial, intellectual qb we have now, I could see that combo really spreading the field alot more than we did the past two years under shanny.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:11 PM   #93
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Originally Posted by Mechanix544 View Post
I think it might be a tad easier to dissect defenses from the shotgun, and that paired with his athleticism could open passing lanes even more. If we did run that much shotgun last year, it sure didnt seem like it. But I could see an increase, is basically what I am saying. I dont know the percentages, but with the fast WR's and the type of cranial, intellectual qb we have now, I could see that combo really spreading the field alot more than we did the past two years under shanny.
Again, I agree.
I was just wondering what makes you think Kyle would change?

I think running more spread shotgun and adding some zone-read would be logical and dynamic.

But, I just don't think Kyle is gonna deviate very much from the offense we currently see because I think Griff is a perfect fit without making any real changes.
I think we'll the same offense with more movement passes i.e. bootlegs/roll outs/dash outs.

I guess a mix of what we saw last year mixed with:


oh, just so you know I'm not guessing about the shotgun %:

We had 50.3% of our passing comes from the shotgun
Grossman+Beck found here:
(Rex Grossman | Washington Redskins | Stats, Pictures, News | NFL Football | FOX Sports on MSN)

we threw 591 passes/ 16 games=36.9 passes/game x .503=
~18 plays from shotgun per game.

Our average plays per game:
591 passs plays + 400 run plays=991 plays/16 games=61.9 plays per game (NFL average is 65 plays per game.)

20% of 62=12 plays from shotgun
30% of 62=18 plays from shotgun
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Old 05-26-2012, 07:42 PM   #94
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

One thing I would like to see more of that the Redskins didn't do much of last season was pass the ball on the very first offensive play from scrimmage. Kyle Shanahan called running plays on the very first play from scrimmage in 12 out of 16 games last season. Now, the Redskins have the offensive personnel to change that this coming season.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:48 PM   #95
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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One thing I would like to see more of that the Redskins didn't do much of last season was pass the ball on the very first offensive play from scrimmage. Kyle Shanahan called running plays on the very first play from scrimmage in 12 out of 16 games last season. Now, the Redskins have the offensive personnel to change that this coming season.
Isn't the opening play call pass/run relatively inconsequential both to the type of offense and to the overall gameplan?
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:11 AM   #96
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Isn't the opening play call pass/run relatively inconsequential both to the type of offense and to the overall gameplan?
I think it's consequential to the quarterback and therefor offense as a whole. I bet if you looked at the percent of games Manning/Brady pass right out of the gate it's much higher than 25%.
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:00 AM   #97
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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I think it's consequential to the quarterback and therefor offense as a whole. I bet if you looked at the percent of games Manning/Brady pass right out of the gate it's much higher than 25%.
Why/how does the 1st play of the offense being pass/run effect the type offense?
And how does the opening play being a pass or a run effect the QB and therefore the offense as a whole?

There are only 16 games therefore there are only 16 '1st plays' in the context of a season where there are roughly 1040 plays.
We're talking about 1 play out of 65 for a game or 16 plays out 1040 for a season.
I don't understand what difference it makes if the 1st offensive play of a game is a pass or a run.

I don't see why the nature (pass/run) of the 1st play of game holds some special importance.
Its just one play and in the context of a game a relatively unimportant or inconsequential play.
Games are not won or lost based on the opening play of the game.

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Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
I bet if you looked at the percent of games Manning/Brady pass right out of the gate it's much higher than 25%.
Even if Brady/Manning 1st offensive play of a game was a pass more then 25% what difference does that make?
What effect does that have on the rest of the game?
The outcome of the game or the type of offense/gameplan is not determined by the opening play call.
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Last edited by 30gut; 05-27-2012 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:36 AM   #98
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

Not sure I really see the significance of the first play of a game either.
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Old 05-27-2012, 01:14 PM   #99
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

their opponents aren't complete strangers, "setting the tone" on the first play of a game doesn't have the same importance
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Old 05-27-2012, 01:50 PM   #100
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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Isn't the opening play call pass/run relatively inconsequential both to the type of offense and to the overall gameplan?
I'm not entirely sure. But one of the reasons why they did that type of play calling was probably because of the bad caliber of QB play. I can remember the second Giants game, which was one of the four games where Kyle Shanahan called a pass play as the first play from scrimmage, and Grossman threw a pick. Maybe they were comfortable handing the ball to Helu Jr., or Hightower istead of having Grossman and Beck throw the rock during the first play from scrimmage. With RG3, it wouldn't be at all surprising if they pass it the first play from scrimmage in most of the games this coming season.
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:12 PM   #101
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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I'm not entirely sure. But one of the reasons why they did that type of play calling was probably because of the bad caliber of QB play. I can remember the second Giants game, which was one of the four games where Kyle Shanahan called a pass play as the first play from scrimmage, and Grossman threw a pick. Maybe they were comfortable handing the ball to Helu Jr., or Hightower istead of having Grossman and Beck throw the rock during the first play from scrimmage. With RG3,
I don't like to get into the speculation on why a coach makes a particular playcall because so much goes into every call.
I think its a gross minimization to say well they probably called play X because of Y.
And the theory that they called runs on the opening play call because they didn't trust Rex/Beck doesn't really hold water for me.
Over the course of the year the pass/run ratio was heavily titled towards the pass at a ratio of 60 to 40, that doesn't happen if a team is more comfortable handing the ball to their backs.

But, were talking about the opening play call without knowing where ours shake out in regards to the other teams.
Are we middle of the pack in terms of pass/run ratio? Head of the pack? Bottom of the pack?


Quote:
it wouldn't be at all surprising if they pass it the first play from scrimmage in most of the games this coming season.
I still don't see the import of the opening playcall in regards to the offensive scheme/game plan.
Whether they pass more/less on the opening play doesn't equate to a change in the type of offensive scheme.

Imo the opening playcall probably comes down to a team calling what they view as their most successful play or the play with the highest percentage of gaining positives yards and therefore creating a manageable 2nd down to create a manageable 3rd down to sustain the opening drive.
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:23 PM   #102
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

To my untrained eye, Kyle's offense changed to more rollouts/bootlegs when Beck briefly replaced Grossman last season. Looking forward to seeing a much more wide-open offense with RG3.
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:07 PM   #103
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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To my untrained eye, Kyle's offense changed to more rollouts/bootlegs when Beck briefly replaced Grossman last season. Looking forward to seeing a much more wide-open offense with RG3.
I guess it depends on what you mean by change.
The difference between the playcalling with Rex to bootlegs w/ Beck during the Panthers game I don't consider a change in the offense as much as a shift in the playcalling.
To my eye the Panthers gameplan was still within the framework of the offense; in fact I think that run heavy/boot-action passing is more true to the Texans/Denver WCO playcalling/gameplan/scheme.

But, depending on what you mean by more wide-open that would be a true change.
I'm assuming you mean more shotgun-spread passing?

I think we'll see a mix of what we say last year+some Texans 5-7 step drop deep passing+5-7 step drop/roll-out heavy Jake Plummer Denver WCO.
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Old 05-27-2012, 04:07 PM   #104
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

The baseline on these DVOA stats is against both runs and passes. So first round run calls are being compared to all first and ten plays leaguewide. Etc. These are the Redskins rates and ranks from the 2011 season.

The Redskins are still pretty dreadful on third downs, but the third down conversion percentage improved from 2010 because they were a lot better on first down this year, so they weren't in quite as many third and longs (and in third down less often altogether).

1st down pass
36.5% (7th)

1st down run
-2.2% (20th)

All first downs
13.6% (10th)

2nd down pass
-8.6% (25th)

2nd down run
-10.0% (30th)

All 2nd down
-11.6% (28th)

3rd/4th passes
-23.6% (27th)

3rd/4th runs
53.2% (4th)

All 3rd/4th down
-18.9% (26th)

All downs (passing)
3.5% (22nd)

All downs (rushing)
-0.5% (17th)

All Downs
-2.1% (19th)
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:36 PM   #105
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Re: A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

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I guess it depends on what you mean by change.
The difference between the playcalling with Rex to bootlegs w/ Beck during the Panthers game I don't consider a change in the offense as much as a shift in the playcalling.
To my eye the Panthers gameplan was still within the framework of the offense; in fact I think that run heavy/boot-action passing is more true to the Texans/Denver WCO playcalling/gameplan/scheme.

But, depending on what you mean by more wide-open that would be a true change.
I'm assuming you mean more shotgun-spread passing?

I think we'll see a mix of what we say last year+some Texans 5-7 step drop deep passing+5-7 step drop/roll-out heavy Jake Plummer Denver WCO.
I agree with you, that with Beck it wasn't a different playbook than Grossman, just different play calling.

I should have been more clear on "wide-open". I have no clue if we're running more shotgun/spread this season.

I'm just thinking this season will seem like night and day between Grossman scrambling, and Griffin running the same play. With more bootlegs/rollouts from under center called.

Yeah, would love to see the deep passing you're talking about on the rollouts. I thought McNabb did once in awhile while he was here, and Grossman tried to do the same.
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