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Griffin's Impact on our Offense

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Old 04-16-2012, 11:12 PM   #136
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
Makes me cringe too. There is a high probability that one of the two is going to be a "bust" in terms of equating his performance to where he is picked. All you can do is do your homework and hope for the best. I think both teams are getting a quality prospect and it wouldn't really be a surprise if both do very well in the NFL.
It's unjust to compare Griffin or Luck to what's happened with other quarterbacks in the past. Very few of them were as good as these two are now entering the NFL. Period point blank- there's always going to be busts at QB. But there will always be quarterbacks who succeed.

Forget about percentages and what have you when it comes to Andre Ware, Donovan McNabb, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Tim Couch, JaMarcus Russell, or Matt Leinart. There are very good REASONS why some young quarterbacks succeed and very good REASONS why other young quarterbacks fail.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:38 PM   #137
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

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Originally Posted by CultBrennan59 View Post
Ok what do you want me to say. There is your proof that Richardson wanted him more than Cam.
There is rumor according to Casserly that Richardson called Luck in January and said that he would have drafted Luck if he came out.
But on its face its at a minimum a half-truth because in January teams do not know who they are gonna draft yet because the draft evaluation process is in its infancy at that point for all the reason I mentioned in the previous thread never mind that Richardson isn't even an owner/GM like Jerruh Jones he's not the Panthers draft day decision maker.
I'm certain that Luck was a prospect they would have considered taking but no team not except maybe the Raiders would already have their mind made about who they're drafting in January.

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I remember them not starting to take Cam seriously as a candidate until about a month away from draft time. As great of a college season Cam had and as good of a rookie season Cam had he wasn't even known nor talked about until his 3rd game his junior year after being kicked off of florida and in community college.
Who is them?
NFL teams were certainly looking at the film from Blinn JuCo where Cam won a national title.



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Luck has been talked about as the next great QB the highest grade for a QB or player for that matter, since Peyton Manning. Your saying you'd take Cam ahead of Luck before you even saw Cam play in the NFL? Thats great and crazy, and thats your opinion.
Yes and its not as crazy as you think, especially in light of Cam's rookie season.

I'm not looking at the prospects based on hype or draft media group think.
I look at the prospect from the skills you can measure from actually watching them play: arm strength, timing, accuracy, efficiency, size, playmaking etc...

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This subject really shouldn't be touched until Luck has played a whole rookie year so we can see how good he will be and compared to Cam. It goes as potential. I'd take Luck over Griffin and Cam because of the known quality and potential. Sure Cam and RG3 have higher potential, because they didn't play in pro style offenses (or played one year like Cam)
Well, we're comparing them as prospects without the benefit of Cam's rookie season.
But, even if you wait and compare their rookie years based on production and not talent do you really think RGIII (as much as I would love him too) or Luck are gonna have rookie season's that rival Cam's?

And you kinda contradict yourself above.
You say you would take Luck over Griff and Cam because of known quality and potential.
But (a) Cam at this stage is more of a known quantity then Luck
(b) you say in the very next sentence that Cam and Griff have higher potential
(c) Cam played more then 1 year of college football

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but when large amounts of scouts say Andrew is the next Peyton Manning, a QB who I believe is the best of all time, I'm going to take him over Cam and Robert.
Again we don't know what scouts are saying because we don't have access to their knowledge.
Scouts, gms and team exec are rarely speak about their draft intel and when they do speak they're hardly ever forthright.
So I don't know where you get the idea that we know what scouts are saying.
We only 'know' what draft media are saying and keep in mind this is the same draft media that said Gabbert was better then Newton and Locker the same draft media that said that had Jimmy Clausen just behind or even ahead of Sam Bradford as a first talent the same draft media that considered UDFA Jevan Snead a draftable QB prospect with a high grade 1-3 round grade?

BTW-You never answered my question, and I'm not asking for the draft media opinion of Luck is the next Peyton Manning.
My question is what does Luck do better then Cam or Griff from a draftable NFL skillset comparison?
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:22 AM   #138
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

We aren't even drafting RGIII so this is all a waste ! ;-)
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:09 AM   #139
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

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Originally Posted by CultBrennan59 View Post
Cams a great QB, but the majority of football people are/were more on Andrew Luck than Cam ever was....Keep in mind, you and I are two guys on the internet giving our Opinions over who's better, when there are guys out there in the NFL, ESPN, NFL Network, etc who get paid for giving their opinion for a reason. And all those guys are still all about Luck. Even after Newton had his great rookie year, they said Cam's did great lets see how great Luck and RG3 are going to be. I agree, lets see.
I get the feeling your not even reading my post because you don't respond to any of the points I make and we're just going around in circles.
Here are my points:

(a) the 'majority of football people' are draft media talking heads they are not scouts

(b) they draft media is wrong all the time therefore when you prop a player up based on there opinion you're just relying on the opinion of people who have been proven wrong time and time again as recently as last year

(c) [from watching your clip] even after Cam had a great rookie year some are saying that Luck is still better but some are not as evident by the debate you posted 2 guys on the panel are actually making my point. But that line of logic or rhetoric behind that debate is based on the persistence of an inaccurate/wrong headed evaluation that the same draft media made of Cam in the first place

And finally (for the 3rd time); since we are just 2 guys on the internet having a discussion why don't you tell me the areas you think Luck is better then Cam and Griff based on their NFL skillset? (instead of pushing the opinions of the often and recently wrong draft media?)...is it arm strength, timing, deep ball, pro-readiness, accuracy, efficiency, size, playmaking
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Last edited by 30gut; 04-17-2012 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:49 AM   #140
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

Odds are, this will more like the Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers year than the Heath Shuler/Trent Dilfer draft.

Look at that list, the talent of both QBs in any given year is not as high as Luck/Griffin. They're both legit #1 picks. Last year with Newton and Locker...there's no comparison, Cam is far more-talented than Locker.

I'm not worried. Besides, it's ESPN, they're not exactly optimists when it comes to our team.
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:13 AM   #141
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

um, why are we wasting so much space arguing about QB's when we're going to be drafting blackmon?

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Old 04-17-2012, 01:39 PM   #142
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

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um, why are we wasting so much space arguing about QB's when we're going to be drafting blackmon?

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Great 1.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:45 PM   #143
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

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Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
I get the feeling your not even reading my post because you don't respond to any of the points I make and we're just going around in circles.
Here are my points:

(a) the 'majority of football people' are draft media talking heads they are not scouts

(b) they draft media is wrong all the time therefore when you prop a player up based on there opinion you're just relying on the opinion of people who have been proven wrong time and time again as recently as last year

(c) [from watching your clip] even after Cam had a great rookie year some are saying that Luck is still better but some are not as evident by the debate you posted 2 guys on the panel are actually making my point. But that line of logic or rhetoric behind that debate is based on the persistence of an inaccurate/wrong headed evaluation that the same draft media made of Cam in the first place

And finally (for the 3rd time); since we are just 2 guys on the internet having a discussion why don't you tell me the areas you think Luck is better then Cam and Griff based on their NFL skillset? (instead of pushing the opinions of the often and recently wrong draft media?)...is it arm strength, timing, deep ball, pro-readiness, accuracy, efficiency, size, playmaking
He definitely has Cam on pro-readiness hands down. I think he also has him on timing, accuracy, and efficiency. Cam did not play in a pro ready offense and had to adjust. Cam is more of an athlete, but Luck is more polished and pro-ready.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:54 PM   #144
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

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Interesting article/analysis on RGIII. Never heard of the Lewin Career Forecast before, but Griffin just scored the highest mark EVER.

Player Year LCF
Robert Griffin 2012 2530
Philip Rivers 2004 2476
Drew Brees 2001 2190
Colt McCoy 2010 2092
Carson Palmer 2003 1973
Peyton Manning 1998 1784
Andrew Luck 2012 1749
Chad Pennington 2000 1678
Brady Quinn 2007 1518
Jason Campbell 2005 1506


FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Lewin Career Forecast 2012
thats actually really impressive.
i wanna lock up Griffin so bad man i hate that the Colts pick before us.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:09 PM   #145
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

Do you think Irsay will drag the pick-out or announce it right away. I figure are pick should take about 2 seconds.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:17 PM   #146
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

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Do you think Irsay will drag the pick-out or announce it right away. I figure are pick should take about 2 seconds.
i hope they sign him to a contract soon, so we know 100% we are getting mr. griffin
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:52 PM   #147
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

I would like to think the Colts would be working out a deal for Luck by now and have an agreement on a contract of some sort. In the past teams would come to a verbal agreement but they still waited until other players started signing contracts to see where the market was, but now its pretty much set so their really is no need to hold out and no need to avoid coming to an agreement prior to the draft.

Also even if the Colts are undecided one would have to think the snub RG3 gave the Colts for a meeting would have to be a small indicator that he does not want to be with you otherwise he would have made a point to visit them. He knows he's going either #1 or #2 so meeting with the two top teams would not have killed him. So if he doesn't want to be with you then there really is no need to draft him since you don't want an unhappy player when there was another player (Luck) just as good or in some peoples minds better who would love to be with the Colts.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:57 PM   #148
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

I have a co-worker who is like a kid in a candy shop over the Skins getting RG3 so when he gets all giddy and asks me if I'm excited over our #2 pick? I ask ... "who Luck"? or when he says "I can't wait to hear our future franchise QB named" I ask "Luck"? lol. I love getting under his skin. lol. I do remind him though there is the possibility the Colts take RG3. I do hate all the media attention he seems to be getting. I wish everyone would just stop trying to sell RG3 cause I am afraid the Colts will second guess themselves and take RG3 at the last second. Which does hold a little weight.
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:02 PM   #149
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

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Originally Posted by Bubba305-ST21- View Post
i hope they sign him to a contract soon, so we know 100% we are getting mr. griffin
Bubba, I agree with you. I would think that the Colts want their QB "in the fold" so to speak as quickly as they can for off season activities. With that being said, you would hope they are negotiating right now with Luck's agent and getting things worked out. But who knows with Irsay!
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:04 PM   #150
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Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense

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I have a co-worker who is like a kid in a candy shop over the Skins getting RG3 so when he gets all giddy and asks me if I'm excited over our #2 pick? I ask ... "who Luck"? or when he says "I can't wait to hear our future franchise QB named" I ask "Luck"? lol. I love getting under his skin. lol. I do remind him though there is the possibility the Colts take RG3. I do hate all the media attention he seems to be getting. I wish everyone would just stop trying to sell RG3 cause I am afraid the Colts will second guess themselves and take RG3 at the last second. Which does hold a little weight.
Well, I think most 'skins fans are hoping for RGIII, but I would not be upset in the least if the 'skins draft Andrew Luck. I just hope, for both teams, down the road when neither QB has the excuse of being rookies, we can say, "I'm glad we got THAT guy!"
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