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Old 02-10-2005, 02:35 PM   #16
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should we be comparing Smoot to all corners or just those on the market right now?
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celts32
We all agree that he's asking for to much money. This is where the Redskins run into trouble all the time. They give other teams players above market deals and then they expect their own players to stay for market or below market deals. When a loyal current Redskin sees outsiders handed the keys to the cookie jar they end up slighted if they are not treated in the same manner. In pro sports money equals love and respect. I think if the Redskins start treating all free agents with a level hand no matter what jersey they wore last year they will find negotiations easier in the future.
DING DING DING - I believe we have a winner! I can't remember how many times I have heard Skins FA's say "I just wanted to be treated like the guys they bring in from other teams" (Jansen pops to mind).

Give Smoot a ride in Redskin 1, hell let him fly the damn thing and stop overpaying for other teams FA's (though I think they did a better job of that last year - other than Brunnell).

As for Smoot's ranking - there are 64 starting corners in the league, I think he is in the 20-30 range myself. Good 2nd corner but not a true number 1. Just don't think he covers well enough to match up against the top receiver week in and week out.
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:45 PM   #18
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Guys, that's the name of the free agency game, you have to overpay to lure players away.

There are plenty of teams around the league that refuse to overpay for their own players, the Patriots with Milloy, the Steelers with too many players to keep track of and the Redskins to a similar extent.
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:46 PM   #19
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When Champ was here, they were a hell of duo. Thats why Joe let Gregg Williams pick Sean Taylor instead of Winslow last year. Because he sold champ to improve the offense with Portis. He is an excellent number 2. And a slightly above average 1. With help from the safeties he is pretty good. He's just so small to get involved consistently in the outside run defense. He did do better this year though.
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:53 PM   #20
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I wish we had players like Brady who just wanted to play for the love of the game and deal with the fact that even a MILLION dollars is more than a lot of people will earn in their lifetimes.
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:57 PM   #21
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Smoot is just outside the top 10 in my opinion. Big C hit most of them, and I agree with just about all of them. I wish Smoot would stay here, but if he wants more money and can get it, more power to him. I'm deifntley not going to be mad at the FO if we dont get him back, because they have offered what I belive is a very fair offer, so if he declined, so be it. I am going to follow him very closley, because I'm extremley interested to see what he can get in FA; I personally dont feel he will get much more than he would have with our contract.
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Old 02-10-2005, 03:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
Guys, that's the name of the free agency game, you have to overpay to lure players away.

There are plenty of teams around the league that refuse to overpay for their own players, the Patriots with Milloy, the Steelers with too many players to keep track of and the Redskins to a similar extent.

You do have to overpay to some extent but come on, no one rings the cash register like the Redskins. Coles & Portis deals come to mind of the current players. They so badly overpaid those guys. They made Portis the highest paid RB in the league and gave Coles like the biggest signing bonus in WR history. Neither one is the top player at his position. Sometimes it's like they bid against themselves. I know free agency is all about overpaying, but the Redskins have taken it to a new level and the current players know it and expect to get the same treatment.
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Old 02-10-2005, 03:21 PM   #23
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1) Champ Bailey
2) Ty Law
3) Chris McAlister
4) Dre Bly
5) Sam Madison
6) Patrick Surtain
7) Charles Woodson
8) Lito Shepphard
9) Ronde Barber
10) Antoine Winfield
11) Shawn Springs
12) Fred Smoot
13) Nate Clements
14) Tory James
15) Dunta Robinson

I may have missed a guy or two, but I'd say Springs is a bit better than Smoot. Springs is certainly more accomplished, he's been to several Pro Bowls, and Springs got $10,250,000 as a signing bonus. Even if you add a bit to that figuring that Smoot is younger, and maybe a little bit for a year's worth of inflation, I can't see giving Smoot more than $12 million TOPS. I'd shoot for $11 million if I were negotiating it. His $14 Million demand is too high.
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Old 02-10-2005, 03:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celts32
You do have to overpay to some extent but come on, no one rings the cash register like the Redskins. Coles & Portis deals come to mind of the current players. They so badly overpaid those guys. They made Portis the highest paid RB in the league and gave Coles like the biggest signing bonus in WR history. Neither one is the top player at his position. Sometimes it's like they bid against themselves. I know free agency is all about overpaying, but the Redskins have taken it to a new level and the current players know it and expect to get the same treatment.
True, but in Coles' case since he was a restricted free agent they had to overpay. As for Portis I think the jury is still out as to whether or not we overpaid, if he blows up for 1500+ yards next year and double digit TD's I for one won't be complaining.
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Old 02-10-2005, 03:39 PM   #25
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I guess you can alwasy say that if a guy plays well that it was justified, but at the point they gave both guys the money it was to much. They way overpaid Coles. I know they were trying to keep the Jets from matching the deal but they went way overboard. The whole league was shocked at that contract they offered Coles. That's the kind of move that opens the current players eyes and makes them want to be paid as the top player at their position. I can just hear Smoot saying "They pay everyone else as the top player at their position so why not me?"
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Old 02-10-2005, 03:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10
1) Champ Bailey
2) Ty Law
3) Chris McAlister
4) Dre Bly
5) Sam Madison
6) Patrick Surtain
7) Charles Woodson
8) Lito Shepphard
9) Ronde Barber
10) Antoine Winfield
11) Shawn Springs
12) Fred Smoot
13) Nate Clements
14) Tory James
15) Dunta Robinson

I may have missed a guy or two, but I'd say Springs is a bit better than Smoot. Springs is certainly more accomplished, he's been to several Pro Bowls, and Springs got $10,250,000 as a signing bonus. Even if you add a bit to that figuring that Smoot is younger, and maybe a little bit for a year's worth of inflation, I can't see giving Smoot more than $12 million TOPS. I'd shoot for $11 million if I were negotiating it. His $14 Million demand is too high.
Welcome to the board. Nice post, although I'd probably knock Woodson down a couple of pegs. He's become a bit of a headcase who hasn't lived up to the promise of his first couple of years. And I think Mcalister benefits greatly from playing in Baltimore.

I agree that $14 million is too high a demand, but I'm sure Smoot and his agent know it as well. It's just a starting point. I think $11.5 is where it ends up.
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Old 02-10-2005, 03:53 PM   #27
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With Smoot all you have to say is look at the deal we gave Springs, why should we give you $4M more in a signing bonus??
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Old 02-10-2005, 03:59 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
With Smoot all you have to say is look at the deal we gave Springs, why should we give you $4M more in a signing bonus??
This is a good point. Smoots demands are just rediculous...

He's been talking to Champ, but he's NOT Champ. This whole thing just stinks. He is a good player and the kind of leader the Skins are looking for, but some people are just putting rediculous ideas in his head of what his worth on the open market is. It's a shame, becasue he is going to leave. That seems certain at this point...
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celts32
You do have to overpay to some extent but come on, no one rings the cash register like the Redskins. Coles & Portis deals come to mind of the current players. They so badly overpaid those guys. They made Portis the highest paid RB in the league and gave Coles like the biggest signing bonus in WR history. Neither one is the top player at his position. Sometimes it's like they bid against themselves. I know free agency is all about overpaying, but the Redskins have taken it to a new level and the current players know it and expect to get the same treatment.
Matty's right you have to overpay guys to get them...
This whole deal about being the highest paid running back is silly. Where a guy falls on the salary ladder has less to do with talent and more to do with timing. Portis is the highest paid RB not because he is the best RB in the league(which he may be anyways...but thats beside the point) but because he is the last big time RB to make a deal. It's guranteed that the next big time RB who makes gets a deal will be paid more. It's just the way it works. Don't equate him being the highest paid with meaning he should be the best(which is ridiculously subjective anyways). Equate it with being one of the top couple players who just happens to have the newest deal.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRPLG
Matty's right you have to overpay guys to get them...
This whole deal about being the highest paid running back is silly. Where a guy falls on the salary ladder has less to do with talent and more to do with timing. Portis is the highest paid RB not because he is the best RB in the league(which he may be anyways...but thats beside the point) but because he is the last big time RB to make a deal. It's guranteed that the next big time RB who makes gets a deal will be paid more. It's just the way it works. Don't equate him being the highest paid with meaning he should be the best(which is ridiculously subjective anyways). Equate it with being one of the top couple players who just happens to have the newest deal.
Exactly! This is why the argument some people make of "can you believe the Redskins gave Trotter a better deal than Ray Lewis' is a bit flawed....it's all in the timing"
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