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How would you rank him?

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Old 02-10-2005, 04:02 PM   #31
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I don't think there is anyway Smoot is a top 15 conerback, he is an improving tackler with good cover skills on the second reciever. He has always been cocky so he wants the kind of money that he thinks he deserves, but if we release him he will find out no one wants to pay him the outragous kind of money he thinks he deserves. That's why I want to stick with what we have, and I believe that our existing corners should fill in.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:09 PM   #32
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Smoot is a top 15 CB in the NFL. Springs is in the top 15 also. Smoot means a lot more to us than he would to anyone else because he embodies the qualities Gibbs desires on the field and because we are striving for more coninuity around here. In a fantasy world he would get several offers all of about the same value with ours being a little better since he means more to us than he would to others. This would be a rather fantastical true free market. This is not what the NFL has. They have a bastardized free market where teams are limited in money they can spend at any one time therefore limiting when they shell out the money. Unfortunately the NFL has a serious dearth of quality CBs. After the top 20 or so the talent falls precipitously making Smoot all the more valuable in a high demand market. Again we're talking about timing. Smoot will be one of just a few good quality CBs around and will get a ridiculous offer from someone who has the money and the need. Unfortunately for us we have the desire, but not quite the need and nowhere near the money that is going to take. Unless we only sign Smoot. Welcome to the salary cap world.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:14 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10
1) Champ Bailey
2) Ty Law
3) Chris McAlister
4) Dre Bly
5) Sam Madison
6) Patrick Surtain
7) Charles Woodson
8) Lito Shepphard
9) Ronde Barber
10) Antoine Winfield
11) Shawn Springs
12) Fred Smoot
13) Nate Clements
14) Tory James
15) Dunta Robinson

I may have missed a guy or two, but I'd say Springs is a bit better than Smoot. Springs is certainly more accomplished, he's been to several Pro Bowls, and Springs got $10,250,000 as a signing bonus. Even if you add a bit to that figuring that Smoot is younger, and maybe a little bit for a year's worth of inflation, I can't see giving Smoot more than $12 million TOPS. I'd shoot for $11 million if I were negotiating it. His $14 Million demand is too high.
Where are all of the Patriots receivers on your list. I know atleast one should be top 10. haha
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman003
...but if we release him he will find out no one wants to pay him the outragous kind of money he thinks he deserves.
Smoot will get a crazy deal from someone I would bet my house on it. he's gonna end up with a nice 13-14 mil signing bonus because some will need a cb and see that their choices are...trade for surtain(malcontent), sign Law to a one year deal(and lose him when he plays well) and.... what are the other options? I guess draft a cb but ther are maybe one or two who are first year starters. Smoot will be coveted which means he is gone.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:32 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRPLG
Smoot will get a crazy deal from someone I would bet my house on it. he's gonna end up with a nice 13-14 mil signing bonus because some will need a cb and see that their choices are...trade for surtain(malcontent), sign Law to a one year deal(and lose him when he plays well) and.... what are the other options? I guess draft a cb but ther are maybe one or two who are first year starters. Smoot will be coveted which means he is gone.
You're right to an extent, there are some other decent options out there though; namely Ken Lucas from the Seahawks, Charles Woodson is up for FA from the Raiders, and Aaron Beasley from the Falcons. But Smoot would qualify as the only young guy just entering the prime of his career. Who knows whether he'll be able to get his $14 million, but if I'm the Redskins I don't pay more than $11 or $12 million because Walt Harris certainly seems capable. And Gregg Williams speaks very highly of Garnell Wilds. After what Williams did with Pierce, Ryan Clark, and Salavae'a, I'm inclined to buy into his opinion of Wilds.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:32 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by FRPLG
Matty's right you have to overpay guys to get them...
This whole deal about being the highest paid running back is silly. Where a guy falls on the salary ladder has less to do with talent and more to do with timing. Portis is the highest paid RB not because he is the best RB in the league(which he may be anyways...but thats beside the point) but because he is the last big time RB to make a deal. It's guranteed that the next big time RB who makes gets a deal will be paid more. It's just the way it works. Don't equate him being the highest paid with meaning he should be the best(which is ridiculously subjective anyways). Equate it with being one of the top couple players who just happens to have the newest deal.

What you say is true and you can make that argument on the Portis deal, but the Coles deal was just silly. It was a league wide joke what we paid him. I remember being embarrassed about it when someone would ask me what they are doing. The excuse about having to outbid the Jets only holds water to a certain extent. They passed that extent by about 10 million dollars. And I am sure that contract gets thrown in theri face every time they try and do a deal with a current player.

I only used Portis's deal as an example becasue they did set the market with the deal, but it was a little more understandable given his age and the seasons he had put up in Denver.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:39 PM   #37
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Matty:

You said:

There are plenty of teams around the league that refuse to overpay for their own players, the Patriots with Milloy, the Steelers with too many players to keep track of and the Redskins to a similar extent.


Problem is the records that the Pats and Steelers - and the Eagels too - amass with their implementation of this strategy compared to Danny Boy and his Front Office mavens.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:41 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by celts32
What you say is true and you can make that argument on the Portis deal, but the Coles deal was just silly. It was a league wide joke what we paid him. I remember being embarrassed about it when someone would ask me what they are doing. The excuse about having to outbid the Jets only holds water to a certain extent. They passed that extent by about 10 million dollars. And I am sure that contract gets thrown in theri face every time they try and do a deal with a current player.

I only used Portis's deal as an example becasue they did set the market with the deal, but it was a little more understandable given his age and the seasons he had put up in Denver.
Ummm...actually no. The Coles deal was constructed so that the Jets could not match it. To simply offer more would have meant that the Jets would have matched instead they structured a deal that fiscally impossible for the Jets to match. It's not like the Skins just arbitrarily decided to pay him that much more for no good reason.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:43 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRPLG
Matty's right you have to overpay guys to get them...
This whole deal about being the highest paid running back is silly. Where a guy falls on the salary ladder has less to do with talent and more to do with timing. Portis is the highest paid RB not because he is the best RB in the league(which he may be anyways...but thats beside the point) but because he is the last big time RB to make a deal. It's guranteed that the next big time RB who makes gets a deal will be paid more. It's just the way it works. Don't equate him being the highest paid with meaning he should be the best(which is ridiculously subjective anyways). Equate it with being one of the top couple players who just happens to have the newest deal.
What you say is true and you can make that argument on the Portis deal, but the Coles deal was just silly. It was a league wide joke what we paid him. I remember being embarrassed about it when someone would ask me what they are doing. The excuse about having to outbid the Jets only holds water to a certain extent. They passed that extent by about 10 million dollars. And I am sure that contract gets thrown in theri face every time they try and do a deal with a current player.

I only used Portis's deal as an example becasue they did set the market with the deal, but it was a little more understandable given his age and the seasons he had put up in Denver.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:44 PM   #40
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And also..if you remember we lost our 1st round pick for doing. Essentially the Skins drafted an experienced WR who had a 1000 yard season under his belt and was young. On top of that they actually(I think) ended up paying just about what they would have paid their first round pick.

Of course since then he has had injury issues but those were unforeseeable. If he is healthy Coles is a top 10 receiver in the league.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:44 PM   #41
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I think that each situation is different. The fault or praise has to lie strictly with the coaches, as they typically control the draft and who we go after in free agency. If someone is realistically replacable, then why not. But in Smoot's case, how much will it cost us to replace him? If Gregg Williams is inclined to believe that we have the talent now to replace Smooty flakes, then i cant disagree. But we may want to pick up a decent cornerback in the later rounds. To learn from Walt Harris next year. How old and slow is Walt Harris. My nightmare is a released Fred Smoot, and an injured Shawn Springs. Then Walt Harris gets to cover TO next year.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:45 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smootsmack
Exactly! This is why the argument some people make of "can you believe the Redskins gave Trotter a better deal than Ray Lewis' is a bit flawed....it's all in the timing"

smootsmack:

I am the one who usually points out that the Skins paid more for Trotter when they signed him than Ray Lewis was making at the time and I still can't believe it. Despite the contribution Trotter made to the Eagles this year, he is NOT NOW and NOT THEN nor will he EVER BE comparable as a LB to Ray Lewis or to several other MLBs in the league. So, to pay him that kind of money WAS dunb and would STILL BE dumb tocay or tomorrow. Remember, Trotter is a free agent again this year unless the Eagles have an option clause in his contract because he only took a one-year deal in Philly. What should the Skins consider paying for him this time?
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:46 PM   #43
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The structure and the size of the deal contributed to them not matching it. Sure they had reasons for offering what they offered but that doesn't make it smart.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:47 PM   #44
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Paying big money for Coles or Portis isn't a problem in my eyes. At the time they signed, they were already accomplished players despite being only 25 in Coles' case and 22 in Portis' case. They've got plenty of great football left ahead of them, so their performance can justify the big payday. Big paydays shouldn't be going to old guys, like Mark Brunell, Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Mark Carrier, guys like that. If they were to pay Muhsin Muhammed a chunk of change I'd lose my lunch. It's the older guys who sign for big bucks and then start their post-prime descent are the salary cap killers.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:53 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon
smootsmack:

I am the one who usually points out that the Skins paid more for Trotter when they signed him than Ray Lewis was making at the time and I still can't believe it. Despite the contribution Trotter made to the Eagles this year, he is NOT NOW and NOT THEN nor will he EVER BE comparable as a LB to Ray Lewis or to several other MLBs in the league. So, to pay him that kind of money WAS dunb and would STILL BE dumb tocay or tomorrow. Remember, Trotter is a free agent again this year unless the Eagles have an option clause in his contract because he only took a one-year deal in Philly. What should the Skins consider paying for him this time?
I honestly don't remember the specifics of the entire situation but plain and simple the market set the price for Trotter at the time. We may have overpaid in hindsight but I am sure we didn't pay him some assanine amount more than he would have gotten from another team. Talent just isn't as big a factor for most teams in the league. They all make decisions based on market versus need. This what we have been doing ever since the Dan bought the team. The successful teams, the ones you list, make their decisions based on talent versus value. Hopefully with free agent plays like Washington last year and letting Smoot go this year the Skins have laerned about the talent versus value strategy.
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