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Is excitement enough in 2012?

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Old 04-30-2012, 11:42 AM   #46
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
Fair points, but the Cowboys have been together for a while yet can't seem to win a playoff game. The Giants played great in the clutch, yet barely won the division. The Eagles scare me a bit this year for some reason but they're not the Packers. There are no world beaters in this division. I think we need to get over the notion that the NFC East is a black and blue division right now. It's just frankly not.

That said, I think you need to give more than a cursory blanket statement to support your call for another poor season.

Let's name the reasons why we went 5-11 last year:

1) Lots of injuries and suspensions coupled with poor depth
2) Terrible secondary play
3) Grossman's high turnover rate (20 picks and 5 lost fumbles in 13 games)
4) Not enough skill position weapons

#1 is addressed just by the return of healthy players. #3 is somewhat addressed by Griffin, who will probably throw picks but won't get sacked nearly as much. And #4 is addressed by Garcon, Morgan, and the return of Hankerson and Fred Davis.

2) is still a major problem.

But I don't see how that doesn't equate to at least a 2 or 3 game improvement over last year's 5-11 debacle. Care to elaborate?
I agree. The biggest thing for everyone to remember too at this point is we're all talking in likelihoods. If we have major injuries we could lose another 10-12 games. If we are remarkably healthy we could win 11-12. When I say 8-8 is reasonable I mean in a typical year with typical injuries and everything working out about average compared to last year.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:04 PM   #47
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
Fair points, but the Cowboys have been together for a while yet can't seem to win a playoff game. The Giants played great in the clutch, yet barely won the division. The Eagles scare me a bit this year for some reason but they're not the Packers. There are no world beaters in this division. I think we need to get over the notion that the NFC East is a black and blue division right now. It's just frankly not.

That said, I think you need to give more than a cursory blanket statement to support your call for another poor season.

Let's name the reasons why we went 5-11 last year:

1) Lots of injuries and suspensions coupled with poor depth
2) Terrible secondary play
3) Grossman's high turnover rate (20 picks and 5 lost fumbles in 13 games)
4) Not enough skill position weapons

#1 is addressed just by the return of healthy players. #3 is somewhat addressed by Griffin, who will probably throw picks but won't get sacked nearly as much. And #4 is addressed by Garcon, Morgan, and the return of Hankerson and Fred Davis.

2) is still a major problem.

But I don't see how that doesn't equate to at least a 2 or 3 game improvement over last year's 5-11 debacle. Care to elaborate?
Not to harp on Beck, but let's also remember that we were 0-3 with him, and while that doesn't excuse the coaches for keeping him in, I think if Griffin goes out, RG-INT is still capable of winning a game or two in a stretch, and Cousins probably is as well.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:39 PM   #48
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

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I think we all need to remember that the teams in our division have been together a while. All those QB's have been in the same offense and are throwing the the same guys.Vick, Manning and Romo are all in the primes of their careers. We're putting in a lot of new parts in. Gotta be patient and give it time. That's why I'm not expecting a playoff run.
Well the Eagles took a step backwards last year after adding all those superstars and who says it will be any better for them this year. I alos think vick is on the decline and with the hits he has taken over the years he could go real quick. Romo will play good enough to keep his job but he is still Homo Romo. We beat the Giants twice last year so maybe we have their number. For some reason I think we make the playoffs this year. We will be the 48ers of last year.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:42 PM   #49
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

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Well the Eagles took a step backwards last year after adding all those superstars and who says it will be any better for them this year. I alos think vick is on the decline and with the hits he has taken over the years he could go real quick. Romo will play good enough to keep his job but he is still Homo Romo. We beat the Giants twice last year so maybe we have their number. For some reason I think we make the playoffs this year. We will be the 48ers of last year.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:53 PM   #50
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

The 48ers. They must have been the prospectors who found the gold first.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:59 PM   #51
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

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I see more reasons for optimism than pessimism, actually. I think we're 8-8 or 9-7 here, with the only thing keeping us from 10-6 or 11-5 being the indiscretion of a youthful QB - turnovers.

First off, we were incredibly injured last year. Injured and suspended. The return of healthy players alone is enough to stabilize us a bit. Lichtensteiger was really missed along the offensive line when he went down - it caused us to shuffle pieces that never really fit. And obviously Trent for those last four games. And Brown's hip still wasn't right - by Shanahan's account there's reason to hope that he's in better health this season.

Jarvis Jenkins never got a chance to make an impact for us - he adds depth. Getting rid of Landry is addition by subtraction in a way. You lose quite a talent but at least you have a healthy player in his spot.

Fred Davis returning from suspension and Chris Cooley coming back gives us TE depth. Remember, we were 3-1 at one point before the injuries really started mounting up. Not that we could have gone 12-4 with that team last year, but with health I don't see why 7-9 or 8-8 was unachievable.

Then we get to the improvements - hello real WRs. No star at WR still, but the depth is miles better than it was last year. And lastly, the obvious - QB. Griffin is going to make plenty of mistakes but I think he's going to move the ball. Our offensive line may not be perfect, but he's going to rip off the occasional long TD run when the line breaks down and he escapes.

You have to expect a rookie QB to make mistakes and throw INTs. But Grossman threw 20 last year in like 13 games started, plus he lost 5 more fumbles. I think that's even a lot of turnovers for a rookie. So what I'm saying is, Griffin really can't be worse than Rex was last year.

We'll get torched on long TD passes because I don't love our secondary. And Griffin will make mistakes. But the supporting cast is healthy and deep enough now for us to at least be in the playoff conversation in the month of December.
Great post. I also think Griffin will be an instant upgrade over Rex even adjusting for rookie mistakes.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:07 PM   #52
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

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Well the Eagles took a step backwards last year after adding all those superstars and who says it will be any better for them this year. I alos think vick is on the decline and with the hits he has taken over the years he could go real quick. Romo will play good enough to keep his job but he is still Homo Romo. We beat the Giants twice last year so maybe we have their number. For some reason I think we make the playoffs this year. We will be the 48ers of last year.
Vick won't quit anytime soon (short of a career-ending injury) but I think you're right about a decline in performance. The dude just gets effed up too much because of his size and style.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:28 PM   #53
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

The Gold Rush actually began in 1848.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:50 PM   #54
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

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I agree. The biggest thing for everyone to remember too at this point is we're all talking in likelihoods. If we have major injuries we could lose another 10-12 games. If we are remarkably healthy we could win 11-12. When I say 8-8 is reasonable I mean in a typical year with typical injuries and everything working out about average compared to last year.
There most certainly will be injuries. EVERY team will be injured by the end of the regular season/beginning of playoffs. The teams that have depth will be successful. If I remember correctly the super bowl champs- NY Giants were fortunate in the sense that they had most of their key injuries early in the season and they were back by the end of the season/playoffs. One of the biggest factors in our success/failure will be how our backups step up when injuries happen - depth - especially on the 1. o line and 2. secondary.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:56 PM   #55
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

8-8 or 9-7 are my expectations...although who knows how bad our secondary is going to be...could make the season 7-9....
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:33 PM   #56
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

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I think we're all looking for progression in the end, but a much-improved offense sure as hell doesn't hurt.

I could get into detail, but in the end, I'd much rather lose 40-39 versus 7-3.

It's just been SO LONG since we've straight up blown another team out (the Lions a few years ago is really the last one I remember) and it's only been recently we've been able to even do the victory formation.
I agree and disagree. If you have scores like that, that just means your D is just plain awful. Yeah, the higher scoring is more exciting, but face it man, games like that come down to who has the ball last, or comes down to who coughs up the ball first. A team like that is bound to hover around 500 or just below it. Look at the high powered offense Norv had with Gus, but our safeties were sieves, with not the best pass rush either. Our LBs and Darrell were hung out to dry on several occasions. That being said I think even 7-9 would be an improvement and I won't be bitching about that. But to be honest, if these newbie linemen actually produce and make the team, and Robert meets or surpasses expectations, we can see 9-7 -r even 10-6. I see the Giants going down a notch and the Eagles being slightly better than last season. The Cowboys will be interesting to watch. I think it will be Boys/Skins again in a couple seasons and the old fun will be back with the rivalry I hope. It has been rather pathetic the last 6 seasons.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:41 PM   #57
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8-8 or 9-7 are my expectations...although who knows how bad our secondary is going to be...could make the season 7-9....
I'm w you, 9-7 at best and that's with griff being ROY.. I just don't see the secondary holding up and our wrs are still a?
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:54 AM   #58
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post

1) Lots of injuries and suspensions coupled with poor depth
2) Terrible secondary play
3) Grossman's high turnover rate (20 picks and 5 lost fumbles in 13 games)
4) Not enough skill position weapons

?
Except for grossman you just named the Giants reasons for a 9-7 season,we had 10 people on IR the first time we player the Skins(opening day) 6 of those were DB's.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:20 AM   #59
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

8-8 9-7 is where I'm at as well. Team has talent, but Griffin isn't going to hop in day 1 and be lights out. He still needs to learn and I don't expect him to really pick it up till about week 5-6. We'll see though.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:57 AM   #60
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Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?

Our 5-11 record last year was a bad 5-11.
Gifted 2 games by the Giants who simply didn't turn up for either game and victories over the hapless Cards and the woeful Rams hardly inspires confidence for much improvement.

2-14 to 4-12 is not unlikely.
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