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A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

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Old 05-25-2012, 12:52 PM   #61
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

Playing with more leads will help the pass/run ratio
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:56 PM   #62
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

If only running the ball more was just about having the lead
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:58 PM   #63
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

No, but it sure would help.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:11 PM   #64
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

Transcript of Redskins coach Mike Shanahan on PFT Live | ProFootballTalk

just read this today, but in reference to our RB situation when PFT ask Shanny about that this is what he said:

"You know, Tim Hightower did a great job for us before he got hurt in the fourth game last year. Roy Helu came in, and I thought he did an excellent job, showed his speed. He was able to play in first, second and third down. You know, Evan Royster over the last five, six games of the season averaged almost six yards a carry. So we’ve got some guys who have got some playing experience, obviously with Helu and Royster going to the second year. You know, they’re excited about getting started. Tim is a natural leader, he came in and really impressed everybody with not only his football skills but his leadership skills as well, so we’ve got three experienced guys there. And then we have four guys in right now like Tristan Davis, Alfred Morris our draft choice, and Creer and Bailey, that we think we’ve got a little depth there and let guys fight for a position."


When it comes down to it folks, styles aside, its all about production at the RB spot. That "almost six yards a carry" is a stat apparently Shanny remembers well.

Hightower bringing the leadership is just great to hear especially with the younger RBs.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:18 PM   #65
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

What a turnaround from previous regimes, eh? Don't get me wrong I loved CP but it was always scary if he went down with Betts injury prone and really no other talent at the position.

I hope we run the ball a ton this season. It will help take pressure off Griffin and wear down defenses.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:37 PM   #66
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

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When it comes down to it folks, styles aside, its all about production at the RB spot. That "almost six yards a carry" is a stat apparently Shanny remembers well.

Hightower bringing the leadership is just great to hear especially with the younger RBs.
Production is certainly important but it obviously linked to the situation and talent around them.
Production has a context that ability does not.
Ability is all about the individual players attributes.
The framework of ability over production allows people to view Barry Sanders as the superior RB despite Emmit Smiths superior production.

If you think Evan Royster can maintain his 5.9 ypc per carry past his 56 total carries and into the 200+ carry ballpark then sure production trumps all.
But, keep in mind Earnest Graham on fewer then 50 carries has a 5.6 ypc.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:41 PM   #67
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

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What a turnaround from previous regimes, eh? Don't get me wrong I loved CP but it was always scary if he went down with Betts injury prone and really no other talent at the position.

I hope we run the ball a ton this season. It will help take pressure off Griffin and wear down defenses.
You take that back! Rock Cartwright was a monster!
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:07 PM   #68
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

Rock Carwright 2005 ypc 7.4 on 27 carries
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:08 PM   #69
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

Rock Cartwright was such a useful player. Unfortunately by the end, he was just a special teams ace on a team with about four other ST aces, and pretty poor special teams units.
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:11 PM   #70
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

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Production is certainly important but it obviously linked to the situation and talent around them.
Production has a context that ability does not.
Ability is all about the individual players attributes.
The framework of ability over production allows people to view Barry Sanders as the superior RB despite Emmit Smiths superior production.

If you think Evan Royster can maintain his 5.9 ypc per carry past his 56 total carries and into the 200+ carry ballpark then sure production trumps all.
But, keep in mind Earnest Graham on fewer then 50 carries has a 5.6 ypc.
I kinda think that is really important, your point of context. the ability to work together with your oline, to work in sync for the most production. So Royster ability to gain those yards working well with the cogs at Oline is a positive right?

I remember watching Parcells talking about drafting RBs, YPC was his top indicator, didnt matter how it happed as long as the guy touched the ball and could be productive with it.

I think Royster drastically improved from the beginning to end of year, and I think that YPC was surprising, as well as impressive. If I had to put money on our starter next year, Royster would be the guy.
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:29 PM   #71
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
I kinda think that is really important, your point of context. the ability to work together with your oline, to work in sync for the most production. So Royster ability to gain those yards working well with the cogs at Oline is a positive right?

I remember watching Parcells talking about drafting RBs, YPC was his top indicator, didnt matter how it happed as long as the guy touched the ball and could be productive with it.

I think Royster drastically improved from the beginning to end of year, and I think that YPC was surprising, as well as impressive. If I had to put money on our starter next year, Royster would be the guy.
Royster looked like a starter. Shannahn like RB's that were very productive in college. But on the other hand I like Helu too. I think Shannahan is gonna have fun switching starters based on game plan versus opponent. Got to give him props on those two RBs.
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:35 PM   #72
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

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I kinda think that is really important, your point of context. the ability to work together with your oline, to work in sync for the most production. So Royster ability to gain those yards working well with the cogs at Oline is a positive right?
Um sure? But wouldn't you also have to consider:

(a) that obviously his low number of carries skews his ypc
(b) the fact that Royster had a benefit of playing behind an OL that gel as opposed to playing behind a patchwork experimental OL that included the Eric Cook at Center (who turned out to be inept) and Will Montgomery at LG (who proved to be overmatched at OG)
(c) quality of the competition/defenses faced in Royster's only starts

Quote:
I remember watching Parcells talking about drafting RBs, YPC was his top indicator, didnt matter how it happed as long as the guy touched the ball and could be productive with it.
It obviously goes without saying that Parcells would not weigh ypc on a few carries equally with the ypc with a lot of carries.

There is no way around the fact that his low number of carries skews his ypc.

Quote:
I think Royster drastically improved from the beginning to end of year, and I think that YPC was surprising, as well as impressive. If I had to put money on our starter next year, Royster would be the guy.
I thought Royster looked good in preseason.
I'm not surprised by his ypc because I remember watching those games and the yards were there.
I think the starter is gonna be won during training camp, but if I were a betting man (i am) my money would be on Helu.

What about Royster's running style do you like?
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Last edited by 30gut; 05-25-2012 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:09 PM   #73
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

Royster has the best vision of the three. I mean, I probably didn't see enough Royster to conclude that unconditionally, but Hightower really leaves a lot of yards out on the field and I don't feel Helu is blessed with great vision, at least based on what he displayed as a rookie. You'd want to put Helu in the open field and let his elusiveness take over rather than asking him to find the open field himself.

I'd still say Helu is the best of the three by a considerable amount (for all the talk about how Hightower is an excellent pass protector -- and he is -- Helu was almost as good by the end of the season), but he isn't blessed with that great vision, and if the offensive line were to become one of the five best in football, it'd be Royster who would pick up the most yards behind that group.

Here's why Helu is so critical: those bootlegs that Kyle is practicing with RG3 just won't be that effective against NFL defenses unless: he's willing to put Helu at tailback on up to 75% of run down snaps, and then give him the ball on the stretch run a steady diet. It's too easy to cheat on the bootleg (and get free shots on RG3) if you know it's coming and you're simply not worried about the stretch run to the frontside.

So while it seems like Griffin will be deadly on boots, if Kyle just sends Hightower out there every first and ten for every first quarter of the game, and then fakes it to him on boot action, RG3 isn't going to even get out of the backfield after the second game of the season. Teams know that you can stop Hightower on the stretch run with seven guys. So then there's always going to be an unblocked defender (strong safety or slot back typically) clean through to Griffin.

In the past, Kyle hasn't been good about getting his best backs into the game on first and ten. That's four years running now. For Griffin to be at his most dangerous, that needs to change this year. Helu must dominate early down snaps in the first half of games.
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:16 PM   #74
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

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Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
Um sure? But wouldn't you also have to consider:

(a) that obviously his low number of carries skews his ypc
(b) the fact that Royster had a benefit of playing behind an OL that gel as opposed to playing behind a patchwork experimental OL that included the Eric Cook at Center (who turned out to be inept) and Will Montgomery at LG (who proved to be overmatched at OG)
(c) quality of the competition/defenses faced in Royster's only starts

It obviously goes without saying that Parcells would not weigh ypc on a few carries equally with the ypc with a lot of carries.

There is no way around the fact that his low number of carries skews his ypc.

I thought Royster looked good in preseason.
I'm not surprised by his ypc because I remember watching those games and the yards were there.
I think the starter is gonna be won during training camp, but if I were a betting man (i am) my money would be on Helu.

What about Royster's running style do you like?
I think Royster is stronger, like the vision and hands. I love Helu no doubt, I dont think he is a consistent 20+ carry guy. Helu is the biggest playmaker and better to the outside. We will need both in order to be successful. I see Hightower as the 3rd down back with the pass protection skills and the I think he knows how to get the "tough yard" when needed.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:59 PM   #75
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Re: A question of style: Evan, Roy or Tim?

They are saying that Tristan Davis could compete for a spot. Apparentley he can run like the wind. 4.3 40ytd. I am pretty excited about our depth at this position.
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