Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Redskins Locker Room


Closed Thread
 
LinkBack (1) Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-18-2012, 04:38 PM   #46
Impact Rookie
 
Gary84Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 744
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
Yup, Reed survived the purging of a regime change with coaches that owed him no allegiance.
Reed is okay but we need a FS that can cover like a corner.
Gary84Clark is offline  

Advertisements
Old 07-18-2012, 04:54 PM   #47
Mann Up HOF!
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 10,442
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
Yup, Reed survived the purging of a regime change with coaches that owed him no allegiance.

Reed has been a capable starting SS, just not well liked or appreciated by fans.
2011-11 starts
2010-9 starts
2009-7 starts

I would love it if we found a Safety or 2 that are better then Doughty.
Nothing would make me happier.
I just question whether the guys we brought in are them.
Its gonna be an interesting competition to watch.
As far as Doughty's being a "capable" starter - I appreciate his attitude. I appreciate his grit. I appreciate his understanding of the defense. I appreciate his discipline. I appreciate his play recognition. What I don't appreciate is his speed, which seems to always leave him one step too late in arriving.
__________________
Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.
Lotus is offline  
Old 07-18-2012, 07:07 PM   #48
MVP
 
Chico23231's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Age: 37
Posts: 11,096
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
As far as Doughty's being a "capable" starter - I appreciate his attitude. I appreciate his grit. I appreciate his understanding of the defense. I appreciate his discipline. I appreciate his play recognition. What I don't appreciate is his speed, which seems to always leave him one step too late in arriving.
Takes bad angles too. Reed and Rocky needed to take remedial geometry.
__________________
@RSherman_25 just make sure you stay in Seattle cause without that pass rush you are who we thought you were. 5th rd PK no speed good hands

DeAngelo Hall (@DeAngeloHall23) March 14, 2014
Chico23231 is offline  
Old 07-18-2012, 07:10 PM   #49
MVP
 
Chico23231's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Age: 37
Posts: 11,096
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
I wasn't aware anyone had been named or given the starting job.
Shanahan is all about competition and if Meriweather, Jackson or M.Williams prove to be better then I'm sure they'll start.
And my guess as Shanny's thinking behind bringing in those players is the hope that they can resurrect their careers and return to a level of play that might only exist in the past.
If Meriweather or Jackson could return to the players they were 2 and 3 years ago it would be sweet.
All, I'm saying is that I doubt it.

When you compare each player you would be lying if you said that last year any of them played better then Reed. (that's despite the fact that Reed had a bad year.

Personally, I think we should placed greater priority on addressing the safety position then we did.

But, short of that if all things are equal I want to see youth.

BTW-
football outsider/profootball focus go to great lengths to ensure the validity of their metrics
If Reed is starting over them this year, wow. Here we go again with bottom of the league safety play.
__________________
@RSherman_25 just make sure you stay in Seattle cause without that pass rush you are who we thought you were. 5th rd PK no speed good hands

DeAngelo Hall (@DeAngeloHall23) March 14, 2014
Chico23231 is offline  
Old 07-18-2012, 09:08 PM   #50
The Starter
 
30gut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,099
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
If Reed is starting over them this year, wow. Here we go again with bottom of the league safety play.
huh?
So if Reed wins the job it means the Safety play is going to be bad?
But, if 1 of the worst 2 safeties in the NFL last year win the job the safety play is gonna be good?
__________________
No longer were NFL coaches dealing inflexibly with spread [QBs] in ways that caused stunted development for players like [A. Smith and Vick] now, the idea is to bring what the quarterback can do, and what he should do, together as an organic whole
30gut is offline  
Old 07-18-2012, 09:33 PM   #51
MVP
 
Chico23231's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Age: 37
Posts: 11,096
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
huh?
So if Reed wins the job it means the Safety play is going to be bad?
But, if 1 of the worst 2 safeties in the NFL last year win the job the safety play is gonna be good?
An emphatic YES

30, I always appreciate your opinion, but dont you agree better safety play means overall better play on defense? And not just Reed, Gomes too. I mean, Jackson and Merriweather are just as responsible as well. I know both the last year have struggled, and go back and read, I was not a fan of the initial Merriweather signing one bit. But I think both bring better potential to that side of the field than Reed or Gomes. I want the youth movement too, lets see how camp plays out.
__________________
@RSherman_25 just make sure you stay in Seattle cause without that pass rush you are who we thought you were. 5th rd PK no speed good hands

DeAngelo Hall (@DeAngeloHall23) March 14, 2014
Chico23231 is offline  
Old 07-18-2012, 09:39 PM   #52
Playmaker
 
artmonkforhallofamein07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Charleston , SC
Posts: 4,663
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Jackson will play well and I think at this point at looking at players on paper he is the best we have.
__________________
Robert Griffin III welcome to the Washington Redskins!

Year 1 - NFC EAST Champions at 10-6

Year 2 - 3-10... Benched 14 weeks to late.....

Year 3 - Pure Awesomeness!!

http://site.fandangoracinginc.com/
artmonkforhallofamein07 is offline  
Old 07-18-2012, 10:21 PM   #53
The Starter
 
30gut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,099
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
huh?
So if Reed wins the job it means the Safety play is going to be bad?
But, if 1 of the worst 2 safeties in the NFL last year win the job the safety play is gonna be good?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
An emphatic YES[
Your answer might be emphatic, but its far from logical.
And to be clear the Redskins did not have league worst safety play last year.
They were decent in pass defense 12th.

Quote:
30, I always appreciate your opinion, but dont you agree better safety play means overall better play on defense?
Of course.
But, I'm not gonna start believing in ghosts to upgrade the safety play just because it makes me feel good.

Expecting Meriweather or Tanard Jackson based on last years actual on the field play is akin to pissing on my leg and telling me its raining.

Quote:
But I think both bring better potential to that side of the field than Reed or Gomes. I want the youth movement too, lets see how camp plays out
I could name a long (and recent) list of ghosts that this FO has chased that haven't panned out.
But, suffice it to say that nothing about the recent play of either Meriweather or Jackson suggest that they'll be better then Reed much less return to the players they were 2-3 years ago.
I hope like heck they do, but if i was in the FO I certainly wouldn't be going in their direction.

Me thinks you're dislike of Reed Doughty clearly clouds your evaluation of him as a player.
And what is to stop Gomes form playing at a high level?
Gomes already plays as well or better then Meriweather or Jackson played last year and there always the possiblity of improvement with young players.

Quote:
The Redskins cut O.J. Atogwe and saw LaRon Landry sign with the Jets in free agency, so they will have two new starting safeties next year, and not necessarily very good ones. Tanard Jackson finished third in our broken tackle count last year, but since he only played 10 games, his 16 broken tackles work out to a horrid 33.3 percent broken tackle rate. Jackson claims that he'll be better once he recovers from a shoulder injury, but that injury is the main reason Tampa Bay cut him. The current plan is to put Brandon Meriweather next to Jackson, but the Patriots were so sick of his freelancing that they cut him before last season, and the Bears were so sick of his freelancing that they benched him after four games. When Washington inevitably gets sick of him, they still have veteran Reed Doughty and youngster DeJon Gomes, who are both strong box safeties but struggle in coverage. They also added Madieu Williams, a seven-year veteran with the Bengals, Vikings, and 49ers.
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Four Downs: NFC East

Reed Doughty comes in at 7th on the "Best DBs" list, with only 3 broken tackles with 75 tackles, a 3.8% rate. The surest DB, Jason Allen, comes in at a 0% rate with 0 broken with 55 tackles. The worst DB is Asante Samuel - 14 broken with 39 tackles......

...in 2010 according to Football Outsiders Doughty carried a 63% 'Success Rate' in all plays he was involved in - good enough to rank him 14th in the NFL amongst his SS peers. He has improved every year...

Top 10 Run Defense Ratings for Safeties (2011)
2011's Best Performances: Safeties | ProFootballFocus.com

1. Troy Polamalu (PIT), Wildcard at Denver (+3.8)

2t. Troy Polamalu (PIT), Week 10 at Cincinnati (+2.8)

2t. Ryan Mundy (PIT), Wildcard at Denver (+2.8)

4. Thomas Decoud (ATL), Week 13 at Houston (+2.5)

5t. Reed Doughty (WAS), Week 7 at Carolina (+2.4)

5t. Tyvon Branch (OAK), Week 9 vs. Denver (+2.4)

5t. Quintin Mikell (SL), Week 15 vs. Cincinnati (+2.4)

8t. Troy Polamalu (PIT), Week 16 at St Louis (+2.3)

8t. Kam Chancellor (SEA), Week 1 at San Francisco (+2.3)

8t. Reed Doughty (WAS), Week 13 vs. New York Jets (+2.3)

8t. Roman Harper (NO), Week 10 at Atlanta (+2.3)


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...fensive-backs/
__________________
No longer were NFL coaches dealing inflexibly with spread [QBs] in ways that caused stunted development for players like [A. Smith and Vick] now, the idea is to bring what the quarterback can do, and what he should do, together as an organic whole
30gut is offline  
Old 07-19-2012, 12:17 AM   #54
The Starter
 
JGisLordOfTheRings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Richmond VA
Age: 28
Posts: 2,310
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
An emphatic YES

30, I always appreciate your opinion, but dont you agree better safety play means overall better play on defense? And not just Reed, Gomes too. I mean, Jackson and Merriweather are just as responsible as well. I know both the last year have struggled, and go back and read, I was not a fan of the initial Merriweather signing one bit. But I think both bring better potential to that side of the field than Reed or Gomes. I want the youth movement too, lets see how camp plays out.
READ THIS HOW IT IS WRITTEN, IN ALLLLLLLLL CAPS! You can have a good pass rush all day long, but if any QB can throw it up and KNOW damn good and well that no one back there is fast enough to get behind their WR to pick it or at least break it up, this year is gonna be like the Eagles Masssacre ALLLLLLLL over again.

The SS, FS and CB position scare the flying monkey shit out me this year. Remember '06? The only reason every team we played didn't score 40+ every game is because of the late, great SEAN FUGGIN TAYLOR(RIP).
__________________
Creator of the Useless Thread
JGisLordOfTheRings is offline  
Old 07-19-2012, 01:49 AM   #55
The Starter
 
REDSKINS4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Born and raised in D.C.....but I'm a New Yorker now....
Posts: 2,111
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary84Clark View Post
Reed is okay but we need a FS that can cover like a corner.
Hopefully Cedric Griffin can fill that role. He has experience playing corner and he's slated to play safety this season.
REDSKINS4ever is offline  
Old 07-19-2012, 05:46 AM   #56
MVP
 
Chico23231's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Age: 37
Posts: 11,096
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
Your answer might be emphatic, but its far from logical.
And to be clear the Redskins did not have league worst safety play last year.
They were decent in pass defense 12th.

Of course.
But, I'm not gonna start believing in ghosts to upgrade the safety play just because it makes me feel good.

Expecting Meriweather or Tanard Jackson based on last years actual on the field play is akin to pissing on my leg and telling me its raining.

I could name a long (and recent) list of ghosts that this FO has chased that haven't panned out.
But, suffice it to say that nothing about the recent play of either Meriweather or Jackson suggest that they'll be better then Reed much less return to the players they were 2-3 years ago.
I hope like heck they do, but if i was in the FO I certainly wouldn't be going in their direction.

Me thinks you're dislike of Reed Doughty clearly clouds your evaluation of him as a player.
And what is to stop Gomes form playing at a high level?
Gomes already plays as well or better then Meriweather or Jackson played last year and there always the possiblity of improvement with young players.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Four Downs: NFC East

Reed Doughty comes in at 7th on the "Best DBs" list, with only 3 broken tackles with 75 tackles, a 3.8% rate. The surest DB, Jason Allen, comes in at a 0% rate with 0 broken with 55 tackles. The worst DB is Asante Samuel - 14 broken with 39 tackles......

...in 2010 according to Football Outsiders Doughty carried a 63% 'Success Rate' in all plays he was involved in - good enough to rank him 14th in the NFL amongst his SS peers. He has improved every year...

Top 10 Run Defense Ratings for Safeties (2011)
2011's Best Performances: Safeties | ProFootballFocus.com

1. Troy Polamalu (PIT), Wildcard at Denver (+3.8)

2t. Troy Polamalu (PIT), Week 10 at Cincinnati (+2.8)

2t. Ryan Mundy (PIT), Wildcard at Denver (+2.8)

4. Thomas Decoud (ATL), Week 13 at Houston (+2.5)

5t. Reed Doughty (WAS), Week 7 at Carolina (+2.4)

5t. Tyvon Branch (OAK), Week 9 vs. Denver (+2.4)

5t. Quintin Mikell (SL), Week 15 vs. Cincinnati (+2.4)

8t. Troy Polamalu (PIT), Week 16 at St Louis (+2.3)

8t. Kam Chancellor (SEA), Week 1 at San Francisco (+2.3)

8t. Reed Doughty (WAS), Week 13 vs. New York Jets (+2.3)

8t. Roman Harper (NO), Week 10 at Atlanta (+2.3)


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...fensive-backs/
Why are we bringing all these safeties, vets and rookies, to displace this great player? Why havent we signed Reed to a long term deal? Its just not logical, is it?
__________________
@RSherman_25 just make sure you stay in Seattle cause without that pass rush you are who we thought you were. 5th rd PK no speed good hands

DeAngelo Hall (@DeAngeloHall23) March 14, 2014
Chico23231 is offline  
Old 07-19-2012, 06:01 AM   #57
The Starter
 
30gut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,099
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
Why are we bringing all these safeties, vets and rookies, to displace this great player? Why havent we signed Reed to a long term deal? Its just not logical, is it?
C'mon Chico, don't do that crap bro, where have I ever said that Reed is a great player?

And if you want to play that game why was a 1st round pick safety with 2 "pro-bowls" cut by the team that drafted him signed by a team that ran a similar 2-deep scheme then benched and cut by that team?

Look it, and this is the last I'll say about it.
Reed is an average SS in the NFL.<-----not an opinion
Our safety position could stand an upgrade.
Based on how the safeties we signed performed last year(<----not an opinion they were BAD) I doubt they will provide that upgrade.
Your contention that the they will be better then Reed seems to based soley on your dislike for Reed and your desire to see improved safety play.
I guess the grass is always greener.
__________________
No longer were NFL coaches dealing inflexibly with spread [QBs] in ways that caused stunted development for players like [A. Smith and Vick] now, the idea is to bring what the quarterback can do, and what he should do, together as an organic whole

Last edited by 30gut; 07-19-2012 at 06:10 AM.
30gut is offline  
Old 07-19-2012, 06:03 AM   #58
The Starter
 
30gut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,099
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever View Post
Hopefully Cedric Griffin can fill that role. He has experience playing corner and he's slated to play safety this season.
Cedric Griffin was a poor coverage corner that couldn't tackle.
I don't understand why people think he can play FS.
__________________
No longer were NFL coaches dealing inflexibly with spread [QBs] in ways that caused stunted development for players like [A. Smith and Vick] now, the idea is to bring what the quarterback can do, and what he should do, together as an organic whole
30gut is offline  
Old 07-19-2012, 07:29 AM   #59
Living Legend
 
That Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Springfield, VA
Age: 31
Posts: 16,247
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

reed's been great... for a 6th round pick. speed will always be an issue, and it'd be much better if he were a reserve imo.
__________________
Who says shameless self promotion is stupid? oh yeah, that was me... Click For Tunes!
That Guy is offline  
Old 07-19-2012, 09:12 AM   #60
The Starter
 
REDSKINS4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Born and raised in D.C.....but I'm a New Yorker now....
Posts: 2,111
Re: 2012 Training Camp Competitions Open Discussion

There's a difference between playing safety and corner. Has C. Griffin played safety much during his time in the NFL? He may be better suited to play safety than playing corner. I'm looking forward to the competition in the defensive backfield between Madieu Williams, Brandon Meriweather, Kevin Barnes, and Cedric Griffin.
REDSKINS4ever is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.33800 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25