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We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Old 08-01-2012, 09:57 AM   #151
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
And we made an effort to get those guys. If we hadn't drafted LeRibeus in the 3rd people would be complaining we have no depth behind Lichtensteiger
Is McRib gonna play guard? Heard that hasnt been going so well, looking more like a Center. SS, when does anyone complain around here?

Well at least Laron isnt fooling us again this year, only JB. Roger Daultrey should be our lead vocalist for the Skins.

Any word on Willie's injury?
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:02 AM   #152
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Your's and Joe's argument is a good one.

However, multiple reports from camp say that Polumbus and Smith have struggled mightily. If they have regressed, then the argument for what they did last year is moot and the RT position is a concern.

Let's watch a few pre-season and regular season games before we edge closer to that cliff. I think a few of us are saying lets wait and see mentality because we know it's only 1 week into training camp. You all very well may be right, but I think it's way too soon to start worrying.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:05 AM   #153
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
Is McRib gonna play guard? Heard that hasnt been going so well, looking more like a Center. SS, when does anyone complain around here?

Well at least Laron isnt fooling us again this year, only JB. Roger Daultrey should be our lead vocalist for the Skins.

Any word on Willie's injury?
He's a rookie, for one thing. So struggles are expected. And he's learning both G and C

How exactly are you defining "complain"?

Willie is fine health wise
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:21 AM   #154
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Need to Know: Injuries a part of the NFL camps - Rich Tandler's Real Redskins
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:30 AM   #155
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
Let's watch a few pre-season and regular season games before we edge closer to that cliff. I think a few of us are saying lets wait and see mentality because we know it's only 1 week into training camp. You all very well may be right, but I think it's way too soon to start worrying.
Yep. Wait and see is fine. We'll know more about 8 days from now.

On that note, only 8 days until Skins football!
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:32 AM   #156
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Regardless of the fact that J Brown doesn't need surgery, I wonder if they will still try and make a trade for another tackle. It's still early enough in camp that they could get someone better in to play than a guy with two hip injuries and Polumbus.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:40 AM   #157
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by mbedner3420 View Post
Regardless of the fact that J Brown doesn't need surgery, I wonder if they will still try and make a trade for another tackle. It's still early enough in camp that they could get someone better in to play than a guy with two hip injuries and Polumbus.
Lets be completely honest with ourselves, Jamal Brown is done. Other than a possible Cooley deal or late, late round draft picks we need to watch for cuts. That is where we will find vet help. Rather than trade picks, we should watch for roster cuts at this point. Would like to see Cooley traded for a Tackle, but thats gonna be a challenge.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:42 AM   #158
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Your's and Joe's argument is a good one.

However, multiple reports from camp say that Polumbus and Smith have struggled mightily. If they have regressed, then the argument for what they did last year is moot and the RT position is a concern.
Yes. In camp, they appeared to have struggled. Heading into the offseason, however, it appeared that they were more than capable of handling a starting assignment. So ... going into the offseason, we had two guys (Polumbo, Smith) who appearred ready to be solid contributors with starting potential. Add in that,during the offseason, it appeared Brown was doing better.

So, where was the limitation on our offense last year? Let's take a look at WR's. They were pedestrian at best last year (when Gaffney is your leading WR, calling the unit pedestrian should be considered a complement). Hankerson looked good but had an injury concern and hadn't shown himself to be a consistent threat. Moss underperformed and, as I understand, it was almost off the team. After Gaffney, the leading receivers are a TE (Davis, 58 - who is facing a one year suspension for his next positive test) and a rookie RB (Helu, 49 Rec.).

A reminder about our WR corps last year:
Gaffney: 69 Rec.
Moss: 46 Rec.
Stallworth: 22 rec.
Hankerson: 13
Austin: 12
Armstrong: 7
Banks: 6
Paul: 2

You talk about limiting an offense -- our WR corp limited the offense. Rex or no Rex. None of the WR's on the roster demonstrated that they were YAC guys, much less game breakers. It was a bunch of chain movers at best. What's the point of taking a 5 and 7 step drops when your top two WR's average 13.9/catch (Gaffney, 41st in the NFL last year) and 12.7/catch (Moss, 67th in the NFL)? Our highest yards/catch guy last year? Mike Sellers (15.0/catch). If that is not a brutal idictment of the WR's, I am out.

Our QB situation - well, we know where that stood.

In comparison to those two positions, and playing our reserves, our line performed competently even with a statue like Rex back there.

The FO made some value judgments, someone earlier stated that Bruce thought next year's tackle quality will be much higher. Also, as SS intimated, it's not like on day one of free agency the choice was Garcon or Winston. No, it was Garcon or same old, same old. Winston came along after we addressed the WR position. Again, SS indicated they went after tackles but were priced out of the market between the cap penalty and the decision to prioritize the much more glaring need at WR.

As to Cousins, LeRibeus, over a RT in the 3rd or 4th - as Matty said, drafting for need gets you in trouble. I liked the Cousins pick, it was the right thing given our need to develop a back up at the game's most important position. If the step down in talent from starter to back-up is a concern at RT, a similar step down at QB is the end of a season (see Chicago last year). Grossman is not and never will be the long term answer at number two, QB's take time to develop. Again, based on their in-game performance, we had 2 and, hopefully, 3 guys (Brown being the third) who, based on their in-game performance, could competently cover the RT position. In that case, you trust your grades and go with the BPA.

The line is a concern. Should the FO made it a higher priority in the offseason? Maybe, but, given the other glaring needs that were bigger limitations on the offense, they certainly weren't idiots for not making it the top priority after RGIII. It was a reasonable decision based on the prior season's performance at the WR, QB and OL positions.

Quite frankly ... I am much, much more concerned with the defensive secondary than I am with the RT position.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:43 AM   #159
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora
Skins RT Jammal Brown's injury not serious. No surgery. Rest and rehab. No exact return date scheduled but not season threatening
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:44 AM   #160
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Well, I guess I was right on Thursday/Friday. Brown's injury is not serious. Should actually be back quite soon. So says the latest intel

Note to self: Radio source of mine who keeps feeding me false info...you're on my list
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:45 AM   #161
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Every position on a team can be rated by the quality of players available at that position: all-pro, pro-bowl, average starter, barely average, passable, replacement level etc. (whichever term you want to use) x how many players are available at that position.
Prior to JB's injury the RT position was below average, playing below replacement level and often injured.

This is the truth of the RT situation now and during the offseason.

The next step is philosophy/judgement.
How important is RT play to the overall success/failure of an offense?
The answer to the above question guides ones assessment of priority (right/wrong) for the position.

Should we address and prioritize the RT position with a safer bet to play at a higher level then Jammal Brown or Tyler Polombus?
or
Should we go with what got and let the chips fall where they may?
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Last edited by 30gut; 08-01-2012 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:52 AM   #162
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora
Skins RT Jammal Brown's injury not serious. No surgery. Rest and rehab. No exact return date scheduled but not season threatening
Missed this post. That's not where I heard it from. But if multiple people are reporting it, then that must be a good sign
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:54 AM   #163
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Yes. In camp, they appeared to have struggled. Heading into the offseason, however, it appeared that they were more than capable of handling a starting assignment. So ... going into the offseason, we had two guys (Polumbo, Smith) who appearred ready to be solid contributors with starting potential. Add in that,during the offseason, it appeared Brown was doing better.

So, where was the limitation on our offense last year? Let's take a look at WR's. They were pedestrian at best last year (when Gaffney is your leading WR, calling the unit pedestrian should be considered a complement). Hankerson looked good but had an injury concern and hadn't shown himself to be a consistent threat. Moss underperformed and, as I understand, it was almost off the team. After Gaffney, the leading receivers are a TE (Davis, 58 - who is facing a one year suspension for his next positive test) and a rookie RB (Helu, 49 Rec.).

A reminder about our WR corps last year:
Gaffney: 69 Rec.
Moss: 46 Rec.
Stallworth: 22 rec.
Hankerson: 13
Austin: 12
Armstrong: 7
Banks: 6
Paul: 2

You talk about limiting an offense -- our WR corp limited the offense. Rex or no Rex. None of the WR's on the roster demonstrated that they were YAC guys, much less game breakers. It was a bunch of chain movers at best. What's the point of taking a 5 and 7 step drops when your top two WR's average 13.9/catch (Gaffney, 41st in the NFL last year) and 12.7/catch (Moss, 67th in the NFL)? Our highest yards/catch guy last year? Mike Sellers (15.0/catch). If that is not a brutal idictment of the WR's, I am out.

Our QB situation - well, we know where that stood.

In comparison to those two positions, and playing our reserves, our line performed competently even with a statue like Rex back there.

The FO made some value judgments, someone earlier stated that Bruce thought next year's tackle quality will be much higher. Also, as SS intimated, it's not like on day one of free agency the choice was Garcon or Winston. No, it was Garcon or same old, same old. Winston came along after we addressed the WR position. Again, SS indicated they went after tackles but were priced out of the market between the cap penalty and the decision to prioritize the much more glaring need at WR.

As to Cousins, LeRibeus, over a RT in the 3rd or 4th - as Matty said, drafting for need gets you in trouble. I liked the Cousins pick, it was the right thing given our need to develop a back up at the game's most important position. If the step down in talent from starter to back-up is a concern at RT, a similar step down at QB is the end of a season (see Chicago last year). Grossman is not and never will be the long term answer at number two, QB's take time to develop. Again, based on their in-game performance, we had 2 and, hopefully, 3 guys (Brown being the third) who, based on their in-game performance, could competently cover the RT position. In that case, you trust your grades and go with the BPA.

The line is a concern. Should the FO made it a higher priority in the offseason? Maybe, but, given the other glaring needs that were bigger limitations on the offense, they certainly weren't idiots for not making it the top priority after RGIII. It was a reasonable decision based on the prior season's performance at the WR, QB and OL positions.

Quite frankly ... I am much, much more concerned with the defensive secondary than I am with the RT position.
Hey that's my line!
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:54 AM   #164
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Missed this post. That's not where I heard it from. But if multiple people are reporting it, then that must be a good sign
Any news on the injury to his other hip? Is it serious?
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:55 AM   #165
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Well, I guess I was right on Thursday/Friday. Brown's injury is not serious. Should actually be back quite soon. So says the latest intel

Note to self: Radio source of mine who keeps feeding me false info...you're on my list
SS your intel is always appreciated. Good news I guess, but I really dont expect much from JB. Still need to look at roster cuts and coach up our depth with a sense of urgency.
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