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We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Old 08-01-2012, 10:35 AM   #166
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
But, keep in mind we are talking about matching and improving upon Jammal Brown's level of play.
Given that he hasn't been good, given that both Willie Smith and Tyler Polombus per PFF graded out ahead of Brown.
And given that a 3rd/4th round OT is arguably more talented then Willie Smith then its not out of the realm that a 3rd/4th round OT could match if not surpass Brown's level of play.

Unless Cousins wins the back-up job form Wrecks, which is unlikely, he won't even be in a position to play this year.
If Cousins does win the back-up job he still might not play.
And either way as much as I like to don the Burgundy and Gold glasses were not a Super Bowl contending team.
And imo the purpose of a competent back-up is to maintain the Super Bowl aspirations of a contending team.
Fair enough. I won't argue with that. I was just trying to be measured and conservative in my judgements.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:37 AM   #167
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Ok, got you. So you weren't against a QB per se. Just Cousins.

Could it be your judgment is clouded because you feel Cousins is an unnecessary roadblock on Crompton's path to greatness?
I think having a second young QB is a great idea.

And Crompton is that man! (Or Lindley, Harnisch, or Austin Davis IMO).
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:48 AM   #168
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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I think having a second young QB is a great idea.....And Crompton is that man! (Or Lindley, Harnisch, or Austin Davis IMO).
I bet there are gonna be some good back-ups availbale in the fallout of the Browns, Seahawks and Dolphins training camps.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:51 AM   #169
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

People are assuming that Jonathan Crompton is the odd man out behind Cousins and and Grossman. But if Crompton ends up having a good camp and a greater preseason than Cousins and Grossman, then the coaches are going to have to evaluate him fairly
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:01 AM   #170
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Well, I guess I was right on Thursday/Friday. Brown's injury is not serious. Should actually be back quite soon. So says the latest intel
To add to this.


LL ‏@LL_HTTR247

Brown will be out for a couple weeks but will not go on IR. Looks like 5-8.



Between 5 and 8 weeks. I'm like a few people up here, you really can't count on Brown's health lasting at all.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:03 AM   #171
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
To add to this.


LL ‏@LL_HTTR247

Brown will be out for a couple weeks but will not go on IR. Looks like 5-8.



Between 5 and 8 weeks. I'm like a few people up here, you really can't count on Brown's health lasting at all.
We honestly should just cut ties with Brown now. I don't see him being anything other than a detriment to the stability of the O-line this year (and in the future).
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:06 AM   #172
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Crompton has slightly less than zero chance...unless (heaven forbid) there is some disastrous injury
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:07 AM   #173
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Brown could be back by the opener, really
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:18 AM   #174
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Rookies going to be thrown right into the fire.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:30 AM   #175
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

For the hypothetical crowd:
Long term would you rather have Massie and a late round rookie backup QB or Cousins and a 2013 2nd round RT draft pick?
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:35 AM   #176
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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For the hypothetical crowd:
Long term would you rather have Massie and a late round rookie backup QB or Cousins and a 2013 2nd round RT draft pick?
I like the Cousins move. I just wished that some of the moves we were attempting to make during the offseason would have panned out. Can't control everything though...
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:48 AM   #177
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Ross Tucker said several weeks ago, it is amazing how many teams have OL and secondary issues, and I agree with that. There seems to be a bit of lacking in the "named talent" of the OL pool. Add to that the fact that consistency among the line is a key ingredient to any successful line, and I think our guys who came on at the end of last year ought to be given every opportunity to show what they can do this year.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:06 PM   #178
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
If you're making an argument about improving the receiving options no one would disagree with you.
But, I think the more applicable question is which position RT or WR played at higher level/lower level?.
I absolutely agree. I believe that the real limiting factor to this offense was not the O-Line play but the play of the receivers.

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Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
There is a difference between assessment of a unit like the OL vs an assessment of the individual players.
Again, I agree. We appear to disagree as to the assessment of each unit. As a unit, I think the O-Line performed better and was less of a limitation on the offense than the WR corp. Further, IMHO, the addition of a better indidvidual RT would not enhance the performance of the line as much as the addition of a game-breaking WR would enhance the receiver corp. The difference an individual can make within each unit is, in part, due to the nature the positions. An average RT's weaknesses can be covered up/limited as part of the entire line's play in ways that an individual receiver can't.

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This is the crux of the decision.
There seems to be the implication that there hands were tied.
When the reality is they made a choice.
I agree it was a choice. I think it was the right choice. You & I appear to disagree. I don't remember if it was you, Goat or Chico talking about the limiting factors on offense, but it seems clear to me that the WR's were a significantly bigger limitation to this offense then O-Line was or, specifically, the RT was. Because of that, rather than prioritize a RT, the FO made the more reasonable choice of trying to obtain a WR who could be a game breaker.

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I like Cousins as a prospect. But its a whole other discussion whether there was a need to develop a back-up from this draft. Cousins pick strikes me more as 'amassing talent rather then building a team'. (Bellichick IIRC)].
Except that people keep saying, as part of this discussion, the 3rd or 4th round pick should have been a tackle and that Cousins was a luxury pick. Again, I disagree. The general consensus is that drafting for need over BPA gets you into trouble. It would be a different discussion if there was someone on the board at RT that they thought could start this year (maybe next) - but I don't think that's the case. By my count, 10 tackles had come been selected before we took LeRib. Either 12 or 13 had been selected before Cousins. IMHO, that player would not be part of our discussion here. Zebrie Sanders and Massie may prove me wrong but, then, hindsight is 20/20.
The faster Cousins develops, the faster our drop-off at QB becomes less catastrophic. The faster a RT chosen instead would have developed, the faster our line play becomes slightly better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
We had 3 young players that showed they could come into a game and not vomit on themself.
They played well, given the situation they were thrust into.
But, that doesn't make them starting caliber they are still unknown quantities as long term starters.
They proved themselves to be solid depth anything beyond that is a hope.
Much like Jammal Brown playing better and staying healthy is a hope.
Well, yes, of course it was a hope. I believe it was a reasonable hope given their performance - as young players with upside and, now, starting experience - that they would be more likely to step up to be average or better at the RT position than Hankerson, Moss, Banks or Austin would turn into a game breaking WR. Given the multiple off-season needs, you have to make some choices. Again, I thought the FO choice, given the in-game performances last year, was perfectly reasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
The safeties and nickelback are question marks heading into the season.
Question marks is putting it kindly. Our front seven better get to the QB quick.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:13 PM   #179
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

I agree w/ cutting Brown now. This guy gets more gimpy each year and if anything he just breaks up whatever "consistency" we could have across the oline by starting one of the younger guys.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:18 PM   #180
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

The one constant bit of encouragement I have about our oline issues is Mike's history of producing quality lines.

Also, giving Polumbus the "start" now could give him time to raise his game, if indeed he's struggling so far as reported. Push him hard and see what happens.
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