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We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Old 07-31-2012, 09:18 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I've never really understood the "I don't know if there were any good linemen at that point in the draft, but we should have taken one anyway" argument
Drafting for need over BPA is never a good plan.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:30 PM   #107
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07 View Post
Honestly would a 4th round pick t right now make you feel that much better about our line?
And why not be more specific as to the position? And why limit it to 4th round? How about a 3rd round RT or a 4th round RT both of those would make me feel better about the OL.

take your pick:
2012 NFL Draft Tracker – NFL.com

Especially when you consider that Mike Shanahan has often found quality starting OL in that range and later.

Hopefully the FO will figure something out and the RT position will not be a liability.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:33 PM   #108
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07 View Post
It comes done to who they thought they were getting a steal on. That's how Shanny has described the pick of cousins. They really liked the guy and he was there so... He's on our football team. It was an area of need that he saw he could fill.

Honestly would a 4th round pick t right now make you feel that much better about our line?
Personally I think we should have taken OT Bobbie Massie rather than Cousins. As far as I am concerned Massie is a better player than Cousins and he filled a need. I said this much on draft day.

But to answer your question, I still would not be psyched about Massie starting at RT right this second, even if we had drafted him.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:34 PM   #109
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
Bringing Cousins into the discussion just confuses the discussion with peoples knee jerk desire to defend the Cousins pick so I'm not gonna comment on it.
But, with Jammal Brown's level of play, injury and missed starts an argument could be made that addressing the RT position should have been a higher priority.
I like profootball focus metrics and Jammal Brown had a terrible rating. (-18)
According to PFF Tyler was better then Brown but not by much (-16), but at least Tyler is young and you expect him to improve with playing time and maybe he develops into a league average RT?

But, right now that's just a hope.
And if Tyler is gonna be a starter then where is our quality depth?

Imo finding a more certain solution to the RT situation should have been a much higher priority.
What knee jerk desire to defend? Is that somehow different from the knee jerk "well we should have drafted an OL there" Never mind that we went OL with the pick before Cousins.

We have had a lot of areas to address over the past two years: needed a franchise caliber LT-drafted Williams; needed to upgrade at WR-drafted Hankerson, signed Garcon and Morgan; needed youth at RB-drafted Helu and Royster; needed help for Orakpo-drafted Kerrigan; needed a franchise QB for the next 15 years (hopefully)-drafted RG3; needed to shore up the offensive interior-signed Kory L. (funny how so many are mourning his injury when just two years ago they thought he was a bum), signed Chester, drafted LeRibeus and Gettis...and so on.

And let's not act like we made no effort to address the OL this off-season through FA. We spoke to Winston, Bell, Mathis. Sucks that they didn't come, sure but it wasn't for lack of trying. Many factors, including the salary cap penalty hurt us. And you could say well we shouldn't added Morgan and Garcon. Well then what do you do, sit around, hope an OT signs with you, and when he doesn't you just assume WRs are there?
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:46 PM   #110
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by RGIII View Post
What type of camp is Massie having right now? He's probably getting run over the "Rob Jacksons" of the league...
I couldn't find a report on his camp. Maybe his is being run over, as you described. That's what you expect from a first week rookie. That's why I said I would not be psyched to start him right now.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:46 PM   #111
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
What knee jerk desire to defend? Is that somehow different from the knee jerk "well we should have drafted an OL there" Never mind that we went OL with the pick before Cousins.
My memory is short but I recall quite clearly the arguments made to defend the Cousins pick and I don't care to re-hash them.
And I made it clear in my previous post that my point wasn't that the Cousin's pick should have been OL.
Rather I explained and was specific that imo RT should have been the priority position for the either the 3rd or the 4th pick.

Quote:
And let's not act like we made no effort to address the OL this off-season through FA. We spoke to Winston, Bell, Mathis. Sucks that they didn't come, sure but it wasn't for lack of trying. Many factors, including the salary cap penalty hurt us. And you could say well we shouldn't added Morgan and Garcon. Well then what do you do, sit around, hope an OT signs with you, and when he doesn't you just assume WRs are there?
C'mon SS really? That's the approach you're gonna take?
Well where did I say there was no effort made?
And of course there factors involved in any FA move.
And to be clear the cap penalty came out prior to FA.
Last I checked though money talks when it comes to getting a deal done.
I'm not behind the scenes I cannot speak to what level of effort went into or didn't go into FA OL.
However, football like most businesses is bottom line.
Judgements are made based on outcomes.
The endstate was Jammal Brown being penciled in as the starting RT despite his performance and injuries.
If you're telling me the FO did everything the could and couldn't find a better RT then Jammal Brown then my response is the FO failed to properly address the RT position.

-httr
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:47 PM   #112
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Full disclosure, I dont feel great about the line and I was hoping that they would address the t and guard spots in FA.

I got on the cousins thing because others brought it up and I don't see why that is really that important now. Because as I see it I don't see any fourth round tackles that would have been anything more this year then depth. Say for example next draft we bring in a day one starting t with our second round pick. In that scenario we still have cousins and a t ready to play next year. Which is most likely where you may want to start playing a fourth round guy.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:52 PM   #113
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
And why not be more specific as to the position? And why limit it to 4th round? How about a 3rd round RT or a 4th round RT both of those would make me feel better about the OL.

take your pick:
2012 NFL Draft Tracker – NFL.com

Especially when you consider that Mike Shanahan has often found quality starting OL in that range and later.

Hopefully the FO will figure something out and the RT position will not be a liability.
Your guess is as good as mine, and I would say that Mcribb was seen as a guy who was who they had targeted for that spot for whatever reason. Just bringing in a tackle at that spot for the same of bringing in a tackle doesn't make sense when you have a higher rated player.

I did specify a position in my post with a little lower case t.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:55 PM   #114
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07 View Post
Because as I see it I don't see any fourth round tackles that would have been anything more this year then depth. Say for example next draft we bring in a day one starting t with our second round pick. In that scenario we still have cousins and a t ready to play next year. Which is most likely where you may want to start playing a fourth round guy.
But why limit address the RT position only to the 4th round pick?
Why not the 3rd pick? There have been 3rd round RT that came on, start and play well. (Ryan Harris IIRC)

Also, based on Willie Smith and Maurice Hurt level of play both of which were arguable/visibly better then Jammaml Brown. (Which is also backed up by profootball focus advanced metrics)
Then I would argue if an UDFA rookie and a 6-7th round pick graded out better then Jammal Brown chances are pretty good that a 3rd/4th round RT would have been better then JB. (not to mention without a chronic hip condition)
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:04 PM   #115
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

(Nothing against LeRib he's the kind of OL I like, I'm a draft junkie and heard about LeRib in a few articles by Gil Brandt)
Quote:
Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07 View Post
I would say that Mcribb was seen as a guy who was who they had targeted for that spot for whatever reason. Just bringing in a tackle at that spot for the same of bringing in a tackle doesn't make sense when you have a higher rated player.
Well of course 'just bringing' a player at any position for the sake of bringing a player never makes sense in that case.

Teams draft the players they have rated higher on their boards.
So according to their boards the picks they make are usually 'correct' based on their boards.
But, that doesn't make the decision correct in actuality.
Only time can judge whether or not a team made a correct evaluation in drafting vs passing on a player.

Quote:
I did specify a position in my post with a little lower case t.
My bad then, I didn' know what that lil t was, i thought it was a typo.
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:04 PM   #116
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

30. I am not limiting the round of the pick and nor am I saying that we couldn't have used a tackle in the third or fourth round. There is a method to the skins FO madness and to this point they have done a decent job of turning over the team to get more productive guys.

Like I said above I would have liked to have seen a different approach in FA where there was opportunity to upgrade the position with the money that was spent on Morgan in particular.

I am sure that the RT spot is something where the Skins are looking for a long term solution but during this offseason and draft they didn't find the "right" player to put their resources into.
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:04 PM   #117
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

When did the RT position become so important in lieu of everything else?
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:05 PM   #118
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

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When did the RT position become so important in lieu of everything else?
I don't know when did?
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:09 PM   #119
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
(Nothing against LeRib he's the kind of OL I like, I'm a draft junkie and heard about LeRib in a few articles by Gil Brandt)

Well of course 'just bringing' a player at any position for the sake of bringing a player never makes sense in that case.

Teams draft the players they have rated higher on their boards.
So according to their boards the picks they make are usually 'correct' based on their boards.
But, that doesn't make the decision correct in actuality.
Only time can judge whether or not a team made a correct evaluation in drafting vs passing on a player.

My bad then, I didn' know what that lil t was, i thought it was a typo.
I agree with you 100% on the fact that teams don't make the correct decisions in the draft based on their ratings. If they did I am sure players would have longer average careers the 3 years and hell we may not even need to have a seven round draft every year.
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:10 PM   #120
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Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.

Hey at least it's something to talk about.

Better than some of the conversations that were going on prior to training camp.
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