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Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

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Old 02-21-2005, 11:45 PM   #31
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Re: Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

SC- get a grip on reality man..Synder owns the damn team and if he wnats to involve himself in negotiations then by all rights he should. It is HIS MONEY they're paying the players. If we're talking about Synder having a sit down with Coles and his agent alone then it's totally different but when your #1 WR who you gave a team record SB to and gave up a #1 draft pick wants out I think maybe he might want to show some f*&^ing interest and should be in on a meeting with his Pres of Football and coach with the player and agent. I know I would.
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Old 02-22-2005, 12:54 AM   #32
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Re: Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRPLG
SC- get a grip on reality man..Synder owns the damn team and if he wnats to involve himself in negotiations then by all rights he should. It is HIS MONEY they're paying the players. If we're talking about Synder having a sit down with Coles and his agent alone then it's totally different but when your #1 WR who you gave a team record SB to and gave up a #1 draft pick wants out I think maybe he might want to show some f*&^ing interest and should be in on a meeting with his Pres of Football and coach with the player and agent. I know I would.
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Old 02-22-2005, 01:49 AM   #33
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Re: Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

You cant let it be known that you are going to cut someone and then ask for trade offers. No one is going to give up a first round pick if they can just try and sign him.

The advantage to trading for Coles for the other team is that we absorb the bonus, which makes his salary very reasonable for the other team. But if the other team has to sign in free agency there is no guarantee that you get him, and you will have to pay a lot more.

But if we trade him we take a 9 million dollar cap hit...
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Old 02-22-2005, 01:51 AM   #34
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Re: Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

We could rework his contract to a 1 year medium deal and trade him away. That way the new team deals with salary negotiations next year!
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Old 02-22-2005, 02:06 AM   #35
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Re: Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

the problem isnt makign a new deal, its that fact that our current deal owes him a 13 million dollar bonus. If we make a new deal we still owe that money. We would have get him to pay back his signing bonus, then trade him and let the other team deal with it. I dont see this happening, but i say if he wants to be gone then he has to help us get compensation otherwise let him sit on the bench. How many deep balls is he going to get on the sidelines, we dotn have to cut him
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Old 02-22-2005, 09:30 AM   #36
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Re: Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

I never thought of Coles as "Average" as some here have stated! He has a "Stress" fracture, and it has turned Arthritic! I have Arthitis (I think, but hey, I'm old!) and it ain't fun!

A couple of facts!
a. Coles laid it all out on the field!
b. Coles had 90 catches, (NOT AVERAGE!)
c. Coles refused surgery, as would I! No one wants a Dr. practicing on them!
d. Coles played much better after Cortisone shots during the last couple of games!

Does any of this make him Not a Redskin type of player? NO! He is a very positive Redskin, just injured, and hurt that he cannot forgo surgery. Now, the Redskins are trying to "Spin" this to their advantage.

Granted, the "O" last year was not great! And was not designed to take advantage of some of Coles spead! It was not designed to go downfield, but it has a lot of room for improvement.

I go with the line I read earlier: HOF Coach Gibbs - 3 Rings. Coles - 0!

I hope Coles is here for the 4th, 5th, and 6th ring for HOF Coach Gibbs!
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Old 02-22-2005, 11:31 AM   #37
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Re: Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

a. He did lay it out on the field, no doubt.
b. He averaged about 10YPC - below average.
c. Coles would have one of the best doctors in the country performing surgery on him, not a student.
d. Cortizone shots fuck you up. No way around it, one or two and you're okay. After that it just starts killing nerve endings and really can mess you up. It's NOT a long term solution.

HOF Coach Gibbs - 31st pass offense in the leage. Coles - Unhappy.

The link that hard for you to see?
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Old 02-22-2005, 01:49 PM   #38
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Re: Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

Folks:

I know that Danny Boy owns the team and it's his money and he can do whatever the hell he wants to do with the team and his money. I've been posting for the last couple of years that he is the motive force behind what goes on with the team but it's other folks here who say that he's learned from the past and he's mellowed and he's turned the football part of the operation over to his boyhood hero - - Joe Gibbs.

Would that it were so!

He is still making football decisions - maybe not all of them but he is still making a bunch of them. Of course he "can" do that and of course he has "a right" to do that. But by now, an objective observer has to recognize that Danny Boy is wrong far more often than he is right when he makes football decisions. That same objective observer would also have to recognize that he is right far more often than he is wrong when he makes business decsions.

So, since I root for a football team and not some corporate entity that files taxes with the IRS, I don't particularly care about how much money the franchise is worth and how much profit Danny Boy makes. I don't begrudge him one single dime, but I care about what happens on Sundays in the Fall and the Winter on NFL fields. I carea bout that about a thousand times more than I care about the skins having the biggest seating capacity in the league or the longest season ticket waiting list. I care about that about a million times more than the early-March news conferences where Danny Boy pats himself on the back for his latest brilliant personnel move - 90% of which turn out to be worth about a pinch of pigeon poop. I care about winning and losing. And the irrefutable fact about Danny Boy's record since he started making football moves here is this:

He loses more than he wins.

As long as Danny Boy is making the calls, what happens during actual NFL games involving the Redskins will not be pretty much of the time. One of these years, he'll stumble into a mix of events that will turn out a winner - maybe even a championship team - but it will only be by accident.
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Old 02-22-2005, 03:02 PM   #39
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Re: Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

Here's my speculation about the whole situation (this may well duplicate someone else's post, but I've lost track):

End of last season: Gibbs says to his players, "if you want out, tell me, and we'll try to accomodate you." Coles is unhappy, says so, and negotiations begin--in good faith-- between Coles and the FO (INCLUDING Gibbs). Combine the hurt toe, the unhappiness, and the lack of a good passing game, and it's not insane, if they can manage the cap.

The only way a move works for the skins is if they can minimize the cap hit. That requires the Coles payback, in some form or other. Best case scenario: Coles pays back 5mil on the bonus, another team trades a reasonably valuable commodity, and compensates Coles with a new bonus. This has to be done BEFORE March 2 to make the cap hit fall in the right place for the skins. Releasing Coles is the worst-case for the skins, as far as I can tell: huge cap hit and no compensation. Thus, it must be a trade, and soon, with the weird Coles payback, which may violate union and/or league rules.

Still, all this is in motion: Coles's agent begins feeling out possible deals, as do the skins. Gibbs keeps talking to Coles, because a deal is VERY unlikely, and Coles is therefore going to be back next year, and the two sides will have to make the best of it. Still, Gibbs has kept his word to do what he can to move disgruntled players.

Then someone leaks the a version of the situation to the Post, but one stressing that Coles will be released. This effectively kills the prospect of a deal, I bet. Who would trade for a player that's about to be released? Anyway, who whould pay the big bonus money to a player with an attitude, declining production, and a hurt toe? Needless to say, Coles's agent is pissed. His client's trade value has been decreased.

The skins, at least in the person of Joe Gibbs, are pissed as well. It certainly looks like someone inside the skins organization has scuttled the possibility of a deal. So Gibbs goes on air to deny that Coles will be released. That's pretty much the only thing he said clearly in the press conference. And Gibbs seems unable/unwilling to lie. When he doesn't want to answer a question, he gives that hemming and hawing non-response thing. All he said is "NO RELEASE." I take it that's true: the only reasonable deal for the skins is a trade, and this also serve to prop up Coles's trade value.

Bottom line: unless some Portis-like trade deal comes up (Jets?), we're stuck with Coles. I figure we'll know by March 2nd. Then I hope Coles has surgery, gets his head together, and wakes up to the fact that things will in all probability be way better around here as far as long passing is concerned. I'm sure Gibbs is making sure that Coles doesn't feel unwanted, and that he's really a desired player, if things go that way. Again, Gibbs said as much. But if Coles wants out, Gibbs will try to accomodate him, because in the final analysis, he's a player's coach.

As for Danny, I'm not really sure why any of this is his fault, except signing Coles in the first place (which seemed a good move to me at the time). This is an exampe of Gibbs trying to keep his word, not of Danny-boy's meddling, IMHO.

(Sorry for the long post! It's February!)
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Old 02-22-2005, 03:12 PM   #40
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Re: Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

If dealing with agents and negotiating contracts is a football decision so be it.

Snyder has always been heavily involved with the financial aspects of the team, and that includes wining and dining agents/players, and dealing with all the aspects of the contracts. We should be glad that he's in charge of those aspects, because even though this team has been a perennial loser he always manages to bring in talented players, and his creative cap management has kept us out of this supposed "cap hell" we keep hearing about year after year.

SC, should we expect Gibbs to take over those functions as well?? Correct me if I'm wrong but Gibbs was brought in to coach a football team, he's got his hands full with that side, in fact I'd like to know if there are any NFL coaches that handle ALL of a team's football operations. I highly doubt there is a one man show out there that handles everything.

You seem to be hinting that Snyder is somehow behind the Coles situation and his motive his to draw attention to himself. That would be pretty damn egotistical, almost to the point of insanity. I find it hard to believe an ultra-successful businessman like Snyder has these sort of self-destructive intentions. A star player like Coles puts people in the seats, his jersey sales generate revenue, and why in the hell would he want to sabotage that? For ego? For personal publicity?

Maybe you could elaborate a bit more on your point, because right now it sounds pretty damn outrageous.
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Old 02-22-2005, 03:17 PM   #41
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Re: Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWsleep
Here's my speculation about the whole situation (this may well duplicate someone else's post, but I've lost track):

End of last season: Gibbs says to his players, "if you want out, tell me, and we'll try to accomodate you." Coles is unhappy, says so, and negotiations begin--in good faith-- between Coles and the FO (INCLUDING Gibbs). Combine the hurt toe, the unhappiness, and the lack of a good passing game, and it's not insane, if they can manage the cap.

The only way a move works for the skins is if they can minimize the cap hit. That requires the Coles payback, in some form or other. Best case scenario: Coles pays back 5mil on the bonus, another team trades a reasonably valuable commodity, and compensates Coles with a new bonus. This has to be done BEFORE March 2 to make the cap hit fall in the right place for the skins. Releasing Coles is the worst-case for the skins, as far as I can tell: huge cap hit and no compensation. Thus, it must be a trade, and soon, with the weird Coles payback, which may violate union and/or league rules.

Still, all this is in motion: Coles's agent begins feeling out possible deals, as do the skins. Gibbs keeps talking to Coles, because a deal is VERY unlikely, and Coles is therefore going to be back next year, and the two sides will have to make the best of it. Still, Gibbs has kept his word to do what he can to move disgruntled players.

Then someone leaks the a version of the situation to the Post, but one stressing that Coles will be released. This effectively kills the prospect of a deal, I bet. Who would trade for a player that's about to be released? Anyway, who whould pay the big bonus money to a player with an attitude, declining production, and a hurt toe? Needless to say, Coles's agent is pissed. His client's trade value has been decreased.

The skins, at least in the person of Joe Gibbs, are pissed as well. It certainly looks like someone inside the skins organization has scuttled the possibility of a deal. So Gibbs goes on air to deny that Coles will be released. That's pretty much the only thing he said clearly in the press conference. And Gibbs seems unable/unwilling to lie. When he doesn't want to answer a question, he gives that hemming and hawing non-response thing. All he said is "NO RELEASE." I take it that's true: the only reasonable deal for the skins is a trade, and this also serve to prop up Coles's trade value.

Bottom line: unless some Portis-like trade deal comes up (Jets?), we're stuck with Coles. I figure we'll know by March 2nd. Then I hope Coles has surgery, gets his head together, and wakes up to the fact that things will in all probability be way better around here as far as long passing is concerned. I'm sure Gibbs is making sure that Coles doesn't feel unwanted, and that he's really a desired player, if things go that way. Again, Gibbs said as much. But if Coles wants out, Gibbs will try to accomodate him, because in the final analysis, he's a player's coach.

As for Danny, I'm not really sure why any of this is his fault, except signing Coles in the first place (which seemed a good move to me at the time). This is an exampe of Gibbs trying to keep his word, not of Danny-boy's meddling, IMHO.

(Sorry for the long post! It's February!)
I think at this point the situation is beyond repair, I just can't see Coles coming back now.

Best case scenario, we work out a trade for him, he gives up his $5M bonus, and the NFLPA ok's it. Both sides win.

Worst case scenario: He gives back the bonus but we end up having to cut him. We don't get anything in return, but at least we get some cap relief. We wipe our hands of this mess early on in the offseason and move the hell on.
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Old 02-22-2005, 03:23 PM   #42
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Re: Breaking news: Gibbs denying reports of Coles

Just another thing, I think this whole Coles situation shows that Gibbs definitely is in charge of football operations.

Could you imagine Spurrier going to Snyder and saying we need to move Coles?! Somehow I don't think anything would have come from that conversation except 'Good one, you almost had me there, Steve'.

Snyder was responsible for bringing Coles here, for us to be looking to move him speaks volumes, and to me it says Gibbs is definitely running the show.
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