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Old 08-22-2012, 07:53 AM   #286
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Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by imaskin4life View Post
...I trust what he saw there.
+1

Quote:
If you believe option #1 (Moss) is open then you don't say "let me see if option 2 (Davis) or #3 (Royster) is MORE open." You throw it to option #1. He believed he could complete it. I also believe it was a pass that he could have completed - it was just a bad throw. In fact I think he did complete one to Moss in that area (I don't think Moss liked it very much because he was slow to get up lol).
Earlier in the game in a similar route combo, he does fit a tight ball to Moss on that post route.

I believe that Davis could have been part of the early progression, but at the top of his drop Davis has not completely crossed the face/cleared the LBs yet.
So Griffin comes off that read and moves on to Moss.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:11 AM   #287
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Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts

Cooley misread the defense on sack/fumble vs. Bears - Washington Times
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:51 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by IrMitchell View Post
Taken out of context.

But whatever, let's just agree that Skip is irrelevant and essentially an ESPN troll.
Deal.
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:56 PM   #289
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Word to this. Or RGIII may have not seen Davis altogether and scampered for the 1st down himself. Definitely hope he minimizes contact but I think we have to accept RGIII will use his legs to escape the pressure and possibly miss the open receiver from time to time. I hope his teammates are patient through the process of him adjusting to pro football.
Yes. I was thinking scramble also. That would be a real speed test. Those lb's look like they were thinking the same thing. Thats a great thing about rg3. Lb's will alwAys be wondering if he is going to take off. God - have we ever had a qb that is going to make defenses so strung out??? Is he going to run or is he going to throw and if he throws is it going to be deep? He does it all well and all three decisions have to be respected!!!!
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:09 PM   #290
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Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts

I finally got to catch the game last night and it wasn't nearly the disaster that the media made it out to be as far as RG3's play. He was under some pressure but I thought he also made some nice plays too. The connection to Moss was really nice. I think Paul should have had that one drop where RG3 rolled out and the throw was a little behind him. It was still a catchable ball. Paul always seems a little stiff when it comes to his hands.

That's what I hate about these preseason games. It's such a limited look, and people tend to blow it up into something it's not.

Back on why RG3's attempts have been so low, I found myself wondering last night if perhaps Shanahan is more concerned with evaluating the running game right now. Couple that with probably not wanting to expose Griffin too much behind a patchwork line. Just a thought.
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:11 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
I have a couple of questions:

I'm just curious if you see the LBs in the first screen cap?

If you do see the LBs in the first screen cap can you see that the linebackers have a clear view of both Davis and Griffin?

Do you also see that Davis is running about 1-1.5 short and parrallel to the 1st down line?

Since the LBs can clearly see Davis/Griffin don't you think they will react to the ball as Griffin starts to throw it to Davis?

I don't get it.
If its so gross to you to have this football discussion don't join.
I mean, its kinda hypocritical to join in the discussion then belly ache about it.
And its not insignificant to discuss football and share view points and try to reach a more true/accurate understanding of what we see.
My comments were directed at the play in question - not your discussing it. Its one play which meant nothing in a game that means nothing. I dont believe that Rg3 is in the same mindset he will be in when the games count. I was reading your and goats posts back and forth and trying to decide who was rite. It than dawned on me that due to the circumstances of the play that even rg3 himself was probably going deep just to go deep. If you read my post again i point that out. If it was reg season and we needed a first down he would probably scramble or sling it to davis. I left ES because people would attack you for your thoughts so trust me that was not my intention. I think its a great play to wonder and chat about but when i really thought about it there was no good answer because i dont think your seeing the same rg3 you would see in a real game. Hence my comment who cares - its insugnificant - again the play not the discussion of the play.

As per the question of him slinging it to davis. I believe that if davis doesnt break stride and rg3 puts zip on that ball that he can catch it and fall forward for the first.
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:31 PM   #292
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Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
Back on why RG3's attempts have been so low, I found myself wondering last night if perhaps Shanahan is more concerned with evaluating the running game right now. Couple that with probably not wanting to expose Griffin too much behind a patchwork line. Just a thought.
I think so. Shanny is testing the right side of he line in particular when it comes to run blocking. First play of the game we ran left and Morris piled up early yards with good blocking. The right side struggled though and Shanny went there again and again to get those guys reps. Smart coaching.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:03 PM   #293
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Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts

You mean it wasn't our awful, worst of all time Offensive Line? Whew, that's a relief. Maybe they can block after all.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:07 PM   #294
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Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts

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As per the question of him slinging it to davis. I believe that if davis doesnt break stride and rg3 puts zip on that ball that he can catch it and fall forward for the first.
To me its important to understand what we're looking at when we have discussion of film/tape.

In the instant of the 1st screen cap Griff is read to throw, he's reached the top of his drop, but he can't throw it to Davis at that time because Davis has yet to cross the face of the LB and therefore Davis at that exact moment is not open.

In order to throw to Moss, Griff has to come off water previous read he was on then moves on to Tana.
At this point the LBs that were previously reading/keying on Davis and Griffin are now reacting to Griffin's arm as he prepares to release of the ball.

Its at this point that the LBs drop off their coverage from Davis and get ready to follow the ball.
That is what makes Davis look wide open while the ball is in air on the way towards Moss.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:30 PM   #295
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Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
I finally got to catch the game last night and it wasn't nearly the disaster that the media made it out to be as far as RG3's play. He was under some pressure but I thought he also made some nice plays too. The connection to Moss was really nice. I think Paul should have had that one drop where RG3 rolled out and the throw was a little behind him. It was still a catchable ball. Paul always seems a little stiff when it comes to his hands.

That's what I hate about these preseason games. It's such a limited look, and people tend to blow it up into something it's not.

Back on why RG3's attempts have been so low, I found myself wondering last night if perhaps Shanahan is more concerned with evaluating the running game right now. Couple that with probably not wanting to expose Griffin too much behind a patchwork line. Just a thought.
I watched the game on Sunday night for the first time after reading all the articles and a few posts here, and that is exactly how I felt about the game.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:34 PM   #296
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When u have a top ten LT the oline can't be that horrendous can it?
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:44 PM   #297
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Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts

I think when the games start meaning something we will see better results. We have no idea what the game plans are or if there are some things we can do with game planning and qb play to hind some of the flaws on our oline.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:54 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
To me its important to understand what we're looking at when we have discussion of film/tape.

In the instant of the 1st screen cap Griff is read to throw, he's reached the top of his drop, but he can't throw it to Davis at that time because Davis has yet to cross the face of the LB and therefore Davis at that exact moment is not open.

In order to throw to Moss, Griff has to come off water previous read he was on then moves on to Tana.
At this point the LBs that were previously reading/keying on Davis and Griffin are now reacting to Griffin's arm as he prepares to release of the ball.

Its at this point that the LBs drop off their coverage from Davis and get ready to follow the ball.
That is what makes Davis look wide open while the ball is in air on the way towards Moss.
Im not saying davis was wide open. I am saying that because this is a preseason game that means nothing RG3 was going to air it out the entire time. Im not debating your take on the linebackers. If this were a meaningful game and we needed the first down Griffin could have and hopefully would have fit that ball in there to Davis. Fit it in - i said this before- i am agreeing with you that DAVIS WAS NOt WIDE OPEN. Again because this is preseason and the game means nothing it is hard to break down plays. Why? Because as others have stated shanny and the staff might be keying on a completely different aspect of our offense. If this were a real game we could be sure that RG 3 and the staff would have had one thing on their mind during said play - moving the chains. In this case however i really feel that rg3 was just airing it out from the minute he snapped the ball.
So maybe to make you understand my point i will pose you this question. What if this were a regular season game and we were in dire need of a first down on this play - does rg-3 wait for davis to take a couple steps and squeeze the ball in tight coverage giving davis s chance to lunge for the first? Does he try and run for the first? Or does he air it out into double coverage?
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:15 AM   #299
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I think when the games start meaning something we will see better results. We have no idea what the game plans are or if there are some things we can do with game planning and qb play to hind some of the flaws on our oline.
Exactly. Its amazing how for years we know and see that the only thing for sure about a preseason game is that the final score is meaningless. Pre season records and regular season records never match up, yet people want to take such stock in the play. All they are is glorified scrimmages where coaches and players get to try things at game speed. I take zero stock in it. I want them to stay healthy and build confidence. I think you are absolutely rite. Wait until they mean something than well see what we got with rg3 and this team.
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:16 AM   #300
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Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts

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In this case however i really feel that rg3 was just airing it out from the minute he snapped the ball.
So maybe to make you understand my point i will pose you this question. What if this were a regular season game and we were in dire need of a first down on this play - does rg-3 wait for davis to take a couple steps and squeeze the ball in tight coverage giving davis s chance to lunge for the first? Does he try and run for the first? Or does he air it out into double coverage?
I get what you are saying about Griff just wanting to air it out, I just don't agree *shrugs*.
Its okay that we have different takes on that play, its all healthy discussion.

In a real game? Imo I don't think he throws it Davis because the LBs are looking right at Griff and Davis. So if Griff continues to look and wait while for Davis to cross the face of the MLB the MLB is going to run with Davis and make sure Davis does not get across his face and the other LB is probably gonna beat feet and try to close the distance in a trail position. Zones defenders are often taught to spot drop to depth (often they drop back the same number of steps as the QB) then pattern read and let the QBs eyes take them to the play.
That's why zone works well against rookie QBs because they tend to eye ball their first read.

Like the other poster said I trust what Griff saw on that play.


To answers the rest of your question under ideal circumstances Griffin (a) makes a better throw to Moss (b) scrambles for the 1st or scrambles to make a play (c) pulls a savvy vet move and pump fakes to Moss thus freezing or wrong footing the LBs then throws it to a Davis who is now actually wide open
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Last edited by 30gut; 08-23-2012 at 06:22 AM.
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