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Cut Chris Samuels

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Old 02-23-2005, 03:14 PM   #31
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

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Originally Posted by Schneed10
I definitely wouldn't pay him what Walter Jones from Seattle got, 7 years 50 million. No way. I'd pay him about what Jansen got, plus a bit for inflation. Like 6 years $30 million.

You definitely overrate him, Celts. He's not one of the best in the game. He hasn't made a Pro Bowl in a few years now. Here's how I'd rate the LTs around the league:
1) Jonathan Ogden
2) Walter Jones
3) Orlando Pace
4) Willie Roaf
5) Tra Thomas
6) Tarik Glenn
7) Flozell Adams
8) Chris Samuels

Flozell Adams got 5 years, $25 million, with a $10 million signing bonus last year. I'd pay Samuels something comparable to that. Don't overrate him, or you'd just end up overpaying him.
I would probably put him maybe 6th or 7th on that list, but you still have him 8th in a 32 team league. That's not to shabby. I would say your top 4 are clearly better and he is in the mix with the other 4 somewhere. Also I think Spurriers pass blocking schemes hurt his production for a couple years. The OL as a whole was completely confused as to what to do with Spurrier as coach. However, I never said he was the best LT in the game I just said he was one of the best your rankings agree with my assessment.
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Old 02-23-2005, 03:20 PM   #32
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

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Originally Posted by celts32
I would probably put him maybe 6th or 7th on that list, but you still have him 8th in a 32 team league.
OK fine, make him 6th or 7th on the list. Pay him $36 million over 6 years, which comes out to $6 million a year. But if you're saying he's worth keeping on the roster at the $9 million cap hit he's got this year, then you're overrating him.

Gotta restructure, or cut.
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Old 02-23-2005, 03:22 PM   #33
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

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Originally Posted by offiss
Wrong, every person who say's he's not worth the money is questioning his ability. We threw wr screen's all year how do give up a sack with that? Then you have his run blocking I hope you noticed all year when we needed tough yard's we didn't run in his direction alway's the right side, not that we succeeded but that's where we tried to run.

I have no doubt Samuels will be easily replaced, that's our biggest problem as a team to many overvalued player's with fat paycheck's.
Saying that you can't afford to carry a 9 million dollar cap figure and saying a player is not good or worth the money are completely different things. You could probably change the scenario and give any other player on the team the same 9 million dollar cap figure and they would be making the same point about releasing him. I didn't take any other post on this chain to mean that samuels was not a real good player. Everyone else who posted on this chain can correct me if I am wrong.

As to why the Redskins chose to run in certain directions I have no idea. I didn't notice any pattern of success running away from Samuels. I do know if the Redskins thought Samuels was an over rated or underperforming player they simply would have cut him already and not even tried to restructure. He has the worst cap contract on the team, the easy thing is to cut him and move on. Obviuosly they must think he's pretty good also.
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Old 02-23-2005, 03:26 PM   #34
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

I never said we should keep him at $9 million. I think that we need to re-sign him since:

1. Left tackles don't grow on trees
2. Offensive linemen, already key players, are even more important in Gibbs' offense.
3. Samuels is at least a top 10 tackle.
4. We don't have an adequate backup for Samuels.
5. Samuels will be key in protecting Ramsey
6. There are no "great" offensive linemen in the draft that I'd trust to anchor the left side of the line.
7. There are no good tackles on the free agent market.

Re-signing him to a deal comparable to Ryan Diem's would be fair, what the market dictates, probably acceptable to Samuels, and would alleviate a ton of our cap problems while retaining a key player.
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Old 02-23-2005, 03:27 PM   #35
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

Teams generally run right as that is the strong side.
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Old 02-23-2005, 03:28 PM   #36
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

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Originally Posted by Schneed10
OK fine, make him 6th or 7th on the list. Pay him $36 million over 6 years, which comes out to $6 million a year. But if you're saying he's worth keeping on the roster at the $9 million cap hit he's got this year, then you're overrating him.

Gotta restructure, or cut.
I never said the contract was good for our cap. I said that he is to important to the team to cut so we need to bite the bullet and keep him.

I believe his cap figure is 9 million becasue of past restructurings that have made the contract appear worse than it was when it was signed. My point is that from a football standpoint we need this guy on the team. I am not excited about the prospect of going into next season hoping one of last years late round draft picks can play LT.
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Old 02-23-2005, 03:36 PM   #37
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

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Originally Posted by Ramseyfan
I never said we should keep him at $9 million. I think that we need to re-sign him since:

1. Left tackles don't grow on trees
2. Offensive linemen, already key players, are even more important in Gibbs' offense.
3. Samuels is at least a top 10 tackle.
4. We don't have an adequate backup for Samuels.
5. Samuels will be key in protecting Ramsey
6. There are no "great" offensive linemen in the draft that I'd trust to anchor the left side of the line.
7. There are no good tackles on the free agent market.

Re-signing him to a deal comparable to Ryan Diem's would be fair, what the market dictates, probably acceptable to Samuels, and would alleviate a ton of our cap problems while retaining a key player.
Some sanity at last. It's crazy to think that we can just plug anyone in at LT. This is not a fantasy football GM looking for a bye week replacement, it's the NFL where LT's are at a premium. If you have a good one you do everything in your power to keep him. Why is it that a top LT never hits the open market? Whenever they are unsigned they get franchised. Whenever a good one is in the draft they go top 5. They are simply to hard to replace and you can not win games without a good one. it's not a position that you can just try and get by with.
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Old 02-23-2005, 03:40 PM   #38
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

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Originally Posted by celts32
Saying that you can't afford to carry a 9 million dollar cap figure and saying a player is not good or worth the money are completely different things. You could probably change the scenario and give any other player on the team the same 9 million dollar cap figure and they would be making the same point about releasing him. I didn't take any other post on this chain to mean that samuels was not a real good player. Everyone else who posted on this chain can correct me if I am wrong.

As to why the Redskins chose to run in certain directions I have no idea. I didn't notice any pattern of success running away from Samuels. I do know if the Redskins thought Samuels was an over rated or underperforming player they simply would have cut him already and not even tried to restructure. He has the worst cap contract on the team, the easy thing is to cut him and move on. Obviuosly they must think he's pretty good also.

They obviously think Brunell is a pretty good player as well????????
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Old 02-23-2005, 03:48 PM   #39
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

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They obviously think Brunell is a pretty good player as well????????
You must be drinking from the lake out there in Hopatcong! Just kidding. Brunell is still around because Gibbs is not ready to throw in the towel yet on his boy. Also maybe they are not prepared yet to take the cap hit on that contract yet. I know the point your trying to make but Samuels and Brunell are completely different stories.
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Old 02-23-2005, 03:49 PM   #40
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

The problem is WE ARE NOT GETTING BY WITH SAMUEL'S! He is nothing special, end of story, Brandon Whiney who couldn't make our team the following year outplayed Samuels 2 season's ago so apparently these elite tackles don't grow on tree's because we don't have one. Samuel's production can be easily filled by either one of our youngsters from last draft that's how much I value Samuel's, I don't care if he want's to play for minimum wage I believe Samuel's and his lackadasical attitude is what is wrong with this team he's a player who get's by rather than look's to excel, I don't want him on this team, I will take a fighter with more heart and less physical talent anyday!
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Old 02-23-2005, 03:53 PM   #41
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

Celts, don't misunderstand my stance. I definitely would prefer to keep Samuels, as I stated in the opening post in this thread. Renegotiating his deal would be the perfect solution, I think the Redskins really need him.

But I just don't think he's affordable at $9 million +.

I think you and I are on the same page when it comes to wanting to restructure him. But where we differ is whether or not he's worth the current $9 million cap hit. I think I am also less scared of Molinaro than you are. That's all.
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:00 PM   #42
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

Just because Winey filled in and did an admirable job for 1 start doesn't mean he's a better LT than Samuels.

Last time I checked Winey isn't starting anywhere.
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:03 PM   #43
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

I agree with you Matty. Please guys, it would be a great deal to lower Samuels salary. But if were to go out and get someone with equal talent, we would be paying 7.5+ a year for him. And Im sorry, maybe Im just out there, but Samuels is about 30% more talented than Jim Molinaro. And can somebody please quote me on that.
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:06 PM   #44
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

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Originally Posted by offiss
The problem is WE ARE NOT GETTING BY WITH SAMUEL'S! He is nothing special, end of story, Brandon Whiney who couldn't make our team the following year outplayed Samuels 2 season's ago so apparently these elite tackles don't grow on tree's because we don't have one. Samuel's production can be easily filled by either one of our youngsters from last draft that's how much I value Samuel's, I don't care if he want's to play for minimum wage I believe Samuel's and his lackadasical attitude is what is wrong with this team he's a player who get's by rather than look's to excel, I don't want him on this team, I will take a fighter with more heart and less physical talent anyday!
We just simply don't agree on how good Samuels is. That's all there is to say I guess.
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:07 PM   #45
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Re: Cut Chris Samuels

We wouldn't be paying $7.5 million to re-sign Samuels unless we give him a deal like the one given to Jonathan Ogden. I don't think Samuels expects to be paid like Ogden. I do think he expects to be paid like Ryan Diem whose getting something like $6.8 million per year. Also, since the deal would be backloaded, we'd likely only be paying him somewhere around $3.5 million for the first two years.
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