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My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

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Old 09-04-2012, 10:03 PM   #106
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
I'm rejecting the "worst roster ever" argument because Shanahan thought he was inheriting a winning, though underachieving team when he took the job. He could have taken a lot of different jobs that weren't the Redskins, but ultimately, his best chance for a quick turnaround was in the wake of Zorn's blunder. Obviously, if he we were as far away as people are claiming we were, he would have at least interviewed for the Buffalo or Seattle jobs. There was simply more immediate upside here. That's why he took the job in the first place.

I also don't see how it matters that pretty much no one from the 2009 team is in the league today, because contrary to popular belief, Mike Shanahan was not looking for the roster that would put him in the best position to win in 2012. That obviously wouldn't have been the Redskins, but the pieces for the quick turnaround (Fletcher, Haynesworth, Landry, Rogers, Cooley, Portis, Moss) were in place, otherwise, why the heck go after McNabb? The idea that the Redskins were expected to return to the playoffs in 2010 is the only reasonable way to view this.

We all picked the Redskins to go to the playoffs in the McNabb year. John Clayton picked the Redskins to go to the playoffs then. I did as well. It's 100% hindsight to claim Shanahan inherited the worst roster ever. Too many knowledgable people thought Zorn's roster + Shanahan's coaching and player acquisition = playoffs. It wasn't the former part of the equation we all had wrong. It was the latter.

If we keep proper context, you can't explain the last two years as being a result of Vinny's ineptitude, because he's been gone too long (although it's obvious he was never helping things).
That's the insightful, depressing GTripp I know!

In all seriousness though, fantastic post. Bravo.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:16 PM   #107
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
Interview or "interview" in the Bill Cowher sense?

I seem to remember that insiders knew Shanahan would be the coach here before Zorn was fired.
He legit interviewed. People can say they knew only because they knew Snyder would not be "outbid" but Shanahan didn't know. He had some reservations.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:31 AM   #108
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
I'm rejecting the "worst roster ever" argument~(good post follows)
Yeah.
Its wierd.
It seems that the fan optimism for Mike Shanahan is cloaked in a bit of misremembering or revisionism.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:41 AM   #109
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

The roster he inherited was not "worst ever" talented, it had talent. It had no depth and was aging. I agree that Shanny thought he could win with the talent on hand - hence, McNabb.

I think, however, Shanny also said what surprised him was the lack of depth.
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:56 PM   #110
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
Interview or "interview" in the Bill Cowher sense?

I seem to remember that insiders knew Shanahan would be the coach here before Zorn was fired.
That's exactly right. Ceratto and Snyder met with SHanahan in Denver during the 2009 season after a close, yet embarrassing loss to the Detroit Lions. Shanahan told Snyder that even if he did come in, there was nothing he could do because it was in season. It was terrible how the undermined Zorn like that.
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:07 PM   #111
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

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The roster he inherited was not "worst ever" talented, it had talent. It had no depth and was aging. I agree that Shanny thought he could win with the talent on hand - hence, McNabb.

I think, however, Shanny also said what surprised him was the lack of depth.
pushaw -- Depth is overrated.







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Old 09-05-2012, 05:01 PM   #112
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

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That's exactly right. Ceratto and Snyder met with SHanahan in Denver during the 2009 season after a close, yet embarrassing loss to the Detroit Lions. Shanahan told Snyder that even if he did come in, there was nothing he could do because it was in season. It was terrible how the undermined Zorn like that.
Yup.

Washington Post, by Mike Wise: How Daniel Snyder found his man in Mike Shanahan

On a Sunday evening nearly two years ago, Daniel Snyder hit his nadir with the Washington Redskins. Trudging down the stairwell of one of his private planes in the hangar of the Dulles Jet Center, burgundy-and-gold striped necktie askew, he mouthed an expletive passengers behind him could clearly hear. In that moment, hours after the Redskins had lost to the lowly Lions — the worst team in pro football — in Detroit, Snyder resembled less of an NFL owner than an exasperated day trader.

“He was as stressed out and lost as I’d ever seen him,” said an associate of Snyder, who recounted the scene.” It was the bottom for all of us, but it was mostly the bottom for him.”

On the way to missing the playoffs for the eighth time in his 11 seasons as Redskins owner, Snyder retreated to the pilot’s lounge inside the hangar with two of his closest advisers at the time, Dave Donovan, the team’s chief operating officer, and Karl Swanson, Snyder’s senior vice president of public relations. Vinny Cerrato, the executive vice president of personnel and Snyder’s right-hand man, joined them after he had taken the team plane home with the players and their beleaguered coach, Jim Zorn.

(read more at link above)
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:59 AM   #113
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

It was also the oldest roster in the NFL and they were coming off a 4-12 season...just saying.
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:39 PM   #114
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

Once Mike Shanahan retires who becomes the head coach, Haslett or Kyle Shanahan?
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:49 PM   #115
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

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Once Mike Shanahan retires who becomes the head coach, Haslett or Kyle Shanahan?
Kyle, of course. That is if Shanny retires willingly. If he is let go, Id have to think that Kyle would have to pack his bags as well, being so intimately involved with the offense, it would basically be the franchise taking off one pair of dirty socks only to put another dirty pair of socks back on.

Id look for us to sign another high profile college coach if the Shanahan plan doesnt pan out, man.........

But I have all faith that it will.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:19 PM   #116
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

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It's all going to come down to whether or not RG3 is a top QB. They have to hit on RG3 and hit big.

I agree with this 98%. They could miss on RGIII and still have a chance to salvage their coaching careers and the teams fortunes. That "chance" being Kirk Cousins. If by some odd happenings that RGIII fails and Kirk steps in and blows up, then nobody is going to remember the RGIII bust of a trade. They're just going to remember getting a all-pro QB in the 4th round.

Bottom line is that they need to hit big on one of the 2 QBs drafted this year.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:12 AM   #117
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

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That is really not a fair statement CHI has a better QB situation then AZ. I am fairly positive JC would start over Kolb and/or Skelton if he played on AZ.
That's exactly my point, if he was good enough to start then someone... like AZ would have signed him this off season, or they would trade for him now once realizing their mistake.

Prima facia: the league considers him a backup QB.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:26 AM   #118
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That's exactly my point, if he was good enough to start then someone... like AZ would have signed him this off season, or they would trade for him now once realizing their mistake.

Prima facia: the league considers him a backup QB.
You can only put so much money into one position. AZ hamstrung themselves when they signed Kolb. No team/FO would bring in another mid level starter(which is how I describe Campbell) just one year after doing the deal AZ did.

Don't see it as prima facia anything.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:07 PM   #119
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

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I'm rejecting the "worst roster ever" argument because Shanahan thought he was inheriting a winning, though underachieving team when he took the job.

If we keep proper context, you can't explain the last two years as being a result of Vinny's ineptitude, because he's been gone too long (although it's obvious he was never helping things).
1) Shanahan realized his mistake and changed direction in year 2 (to his credit) A LOT OF YOU thought they could win now with McNabb... There were people here talking super bowl... Many of you were shouting down anyone who (correctly) surmised that win now was a bad idea, and giving away more draft picks for big name cast offs was a Dan Snyder like Move (see 1b). Mistakes happen, we are all human, I was not a supporter of Shanahans first year, and I didn't want them to hire him... None the less I am impressed with the rebuild in progress and support the idea that he should get about two more seasons, as long as he gets SOME progress.

1b) the scenario where Snyder pushed for McNabb has been floated by credible Journalists and personally I suspect that they had a hand shake deal with Shanahan to try and "win now" with the understanding that if it didn't work they would rebuild the following year.. McNabb WIlly Parker and Larry Johnson all had that patented Snyder big name/washed up feel.

2) regardless of how poorly he evaluated in the first year (or optimistically; after all high performers tend to think they can make things happen) Shanahan changed his mind, admitted his mistakes, moved on, and made the correct determination the next year. But we don't need that to understand what happened with the teams talent level. The most basic evaluation of his roster after year one should conclude that he had no depth at any position except TE, that he had problematic/old/washed up/overpaid by the previous regime starters in almost every key position. They literally had to tear down and were losing more players.

The assessment that he should have restocked the roster in 2 years is just wishful thinking at best. It is incredibly obvious that they want to upgrade positions (like Safety and CB) but simply haven't had the free agents or draft picks. Meanwhile none of the late round flyers have turned out to be diamonds in the rough.

I can't stand this ignorant fan sentiment that just because they brought in some temporary patch or warm body that the guy is actually regarded as an upgrade by Shanahan. A lot of moves are simply lateral sidegrades or even DOWNGRADES due to losing players. This isn't Madden franchise mode or fantasy football where every move is an upgrade. And the prevailing fan sentiment about this is face palm worthy.

In the real world they are trying to upgrade WHILE ALSO trying to compensate for the natural losses of talent, and moves not panning out. In the real world everyone else is trying to win as well. It's like saying next year I'm going to make my car faster to win races... but it's not that easy everyone else is making their car faster too
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:52 PM   #120
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Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

I think the term "worst roster ever" is being used as a strawman at this point, to gloss over how bad the roster was after 2009. That practically nobody cut from that roster has made it anywhere else really does speak volumes. Some folks like Tryon had flashes in the pan with other teams, before being dumped by said team. Landry isn't going to get healthier with the Jets than he was with us. The showings of the 2009 roster on other teams really seems pathetic to me.

The 2009 roster wasn't the worst ever. But it was terrible. The lineup was old and not built for any future when Gibbs left in 2007, and Cerrato did practically nothing to rebuild it. Our 2008 draft is Fred Davis who only had a great half season in 2009 and a drug suspension since. And a lot of draft/FA mistakes like Devin Thomas and Jason Taylor. Our 2009 draft/FA is only Orakpo, and more mistakes like Kevin Barnes and Albert Haynesworth. The old OL retired, and Vinny neglected to reload with any quality picks or good FA signings.

So that was the status of the team when Shanny took over. An old "win now" Gibbs team left to wither on the vine for two full seasons. We can fault Shanny for not believing in "rebuilding" by cleaning house. But the 2009 roster was very bad.
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