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Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley

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Old 10-27-2012, 03:35 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Skinzman View Post
Phil Simms was actually a damn good QB. The WWE president was never a QB.

No one denies the defense that McMahon (the bears QB), Dilfer, or Johnson played with, they are some of the greatest defenses ever. The others are Joe Gibbs QB's, which Ive already stated is the greatest coach ever due to the fact that he could win without stud QB's. But winning without stud QB's is far and few between in the NFL, especially the current pass first NFL.

Although by saying that Belichick was the mastermind is to say that Parcells was a terrible coach, so yeah, cant say that I agree. I seriously doubt Parcells was just along for the Belichickian ride in NY. Something tells me Parcells was the main influence there.
Vince, Jim - whatever they were bith horrible quarterbacks. Lol.
Phil Simms - damn good? Ehhh
Here is a little internet info for Bucket and you - Bill Belichiks defensive gameplan against the Bills in that superbowl hangs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame - yes he was the mastermind. Parcells most successful years throughout his career were when Belichik was with him. That is fact - not opinion. Also if you look back at teams that have won or made it to the superbowl (which in my mind just screams of a successful season) you will find that the number of teams that did not have stud qb's is not as few and far between. I have already mentioned several, and without the benefit of the internet I will throw Rex Grossman, Neil Odonnell and Matt Hasselback in that mix. Again that is just off the top of my head.


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Old 10-27-2012, 03:37 PM   #347
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Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley

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Originally Posted by Skinzman View Post
Might as well expand that out to be that if Shanny wins 5 SB's in a row, you wont be impressed. You dont like Shanny, so it will be all RG3 if we do.



Yes, there is a prevailing theme. Stud QB's make a helluva difference. Does these even need to be explained?



Oh look, more of the same. Again, you guys keep wanting us to ignore that most of what are considered great coaches won with great QB's. Yet you refuse to "see a prevailing theme" yourself.

You could look at it like that, and you could look at it like this.

-Stan Humphries
-Rich Gannon
-Drew Bledsoe
-Chris Chandler
-Neil O'Donnell
-Steve McNair
- Trent Dilfer
- Rex Grossman
- Kerry Collins
- Brad Johnson
- Jake Delhomme
- Donovan McNabb
- Matt Hasselback
- Jeff Hostetler
- Mark Rypien
- Jim Kelly
- Doug Williams
- Tony Eason
- Jim Mcmahon
- Joe Theismann
- David Woodley
- Boomer Esiason
- Ken Anderson


Since 1981, All these quarterbacks either got to a Super Bowl or WON a super bowl. In my opinion, not many of these guys are a "world beater" type quarterback, every one of them successful, no doubt. Many of the QB's listed had great coaches, many didn't. Shanahan himself has coached two of the QB's on this list, but not during their Super bowl appearances of course. Point is, to be considered great, there are plenty of opportunities to get to the big game, especially if you have been coaching since 1987 in a head coaching capacity. Plenty of opportunities to make yourself stand out from the crowd. I think its quite telling, that.......

- during 4 years with Elway, 3 playoff appearances and 2 superbowl wins. 7 playoff wins.

Now Fast forward to October 2012, and look back.

- In the cumulative years without Elway, 15 1/2 seasons in a head coaching capacity (entire career), he has a total of ONE (1) playoff victory


I was excited like most when he took the job over from horny zorny. I mean, Mike Shanahan replacing Jim Zorn? YES PLEASE!!!!!!! But now that I take some time to step back, and look at what he has done over his career, and what he has done here, I'm sorry. I think this MF'er stinks. I also think that for a forward looking program with a huge star in the making, I really hope that Dan Snyder is already searching for his replacement. I don't know if he can find one, I sure hope so. Mike Shanahan is just way overrated. Again, this is just my opinion. Maybe my time at Fort Carson in Colorado Springs has swayed my opinion a bit, because during my time there from 2001 - 2009, all I heard on AM sports radio is hate for this guy, and the oh so frequent rant on how he should have been fired long ago. Like I said, I think that the fans in Denver had a dirty little secret on Shanahan.

The secret is that he is not that good.



(Thanks for listening to my rant)
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:40 PM   #348
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Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley

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Originally Posted by punch it in View Post
Vince, Jim - whatever they were bith horrible quarterbacks. Lol.
Phil Simms - damn good? Ehhh
Here is a little internet info for Bucket and you - Bill Belichiks defensive gameplan against the Bills in that superbowl hangs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame - yes he was the mastermind. Parcells most successful years throughout his career were when Belichik was with him. That is fact - not opinion. Also if you look back at teams that have won or made it to the superbowl (which in my mind just screams of a successful season) you will find that the number of teams that did not have stud qb's is not as few and far between. I have already mentioned several, and without the benefit of the internet I will throw Rex Grossman, Neil Odonnell and Matt Hasselback in that mix. Again that is just off the top of my head.


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The whole Beilchick argument is pointless. We are not saying he is a terrible coach. We are saying he is a great coach, but that even a great coach needed Brady for his success as a head coach.

Stud QB or stud defense wins in this league. Im not in disagreement there, its just harder to keep a stud defense together than it is to sign a stud QB to a multiyear contract. Which is why most of those teams that relied on defense was good for a year or two then fell off.
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:40 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Mechanix544 View Post
You could look at it like that, and you could look at it like this.

-Stan Humphries
-Rich Gannon
-Drew Bledsoe
-Chris Chandler
-Neil O'Donnell
-Steve McNair
- Trent Dilfer
- Rex Grossman
- Kerry Collins
- Brad Johnson
- Jake Delhomme
- Donovan McNabb
- Matt Hasselback
- Jeff Hostetler
- Mark Rypien
- Jim Kelly
- Doug Williams
- Tony Eason
- Jim Mcmahon
- Joe Theismann
- David Woodley
- Boomer Esiason
- Ken Anderson


Since 1981, All these quarterbacks either got to a Super Bowl or WON a super bowl. In my opinion, not many of these guys are a "world beater" type quarterback, every one of them successful, no doubt. Many of the QB's listed had great coaches, many didn't. Shanahan himself has coached two of the QB's on this list, but not during their Super bowl appearances of course. Point is, to be considered great, there are plenty of opportunities to get to the big game, especially if you have been coaching since 1987 in a head coaching capacity. Plenty of opportunities to make yourself stand out from the crowd. I think its quite telling, that.......

- during 4 years with Elway, 3 playoff appearances and 2 superbowl wins. 7 playoff wins.

Now Fast forward to October 2012, and look back.

- In the cumulative years without Elway, 15 1/2 seasons in a head coaching capacity (entire career), he has a total of ONE (1) playoff victory


I was excited like most when he took the job over from horny zorny. I mean, Mike Shanahan replacing Jim Zorn? YES PLEASE!!!!!!! But now that I take some time to step back, and look at what he has done over his career, and what he has done here, I'm sorry. I think this MF'er stinks. I also think that for a forward looking program with a huge star in the making, I really hope that Dan Snyder is already searching for his replacement. I don't know if he can find one, I sure hope so. Mike Shanahan is just way overrated. Again, this is just my opinion. Maybe my time at Fort Carson in Colorado Springs has swayed my opinion a bit, because during my time there from 2001 - 2009, all I heard on AM sports radio is hate for this guy, and the oh so frequent rant on how he should have been fired long ago. Like I said, I think that the fans in Denver had a dirty little secret on Shanahan.

The secret is that he is not that good.



(Thanks for listening to my rant)
Thanks for the Chris Chandler - couldnt remember his damn name but i wanted to put him on my list of non- world beater qb's.

Edit: jim kelly should not be on this list imo.
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:42 PM   #350
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Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley

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First, aren't you the guy who blasted me for being to lawyerly in my responses??

Second, and in short, I simply didn't intend to spend much time arguing Shanny's past b/c I think it, at best, only tangentially relevant to his current ability to succeed. As to his past, believe it or not, I think it cuts both ways. He has had both success and failure. In addition, I had, and still have, serious concerns about his ability to construct a defense and his ability as a personnel guy. To me, those were the cause of his ultimate failure in Denver - along with his dictatorial ego.

With that said, however, to baldly assert that Shanny's record was built on a cake AFC West schedule without citing records, opponents or other criteria, as was done, struck me as wrong. I remember: (1) KC as being pretty tough under Schotty and Vermeil, (2) SD having LT on the field for some of that time, and (3) Oakland winning a SB somewhere in there. I simply did some quick checking on pro football reference and found, as I said, several years where the division had multiple 10+ win teams, which seemed to me to be an indicator that it wasn't quite the pushover Goat and others seem to think it was. In fact, one year (96 I think) no one in their division had a losing record (two 8-8's).

Was the AFC West a powerhouse top to bottom the entire time Shanny was there? No. But neither, as was implied, did Shanny build his record playing the 2012 Jax Jaguars. It was a good division that had solid teams. Shanahan's early successes, and again later with Plummer, give some evidence that he has the ability to succeed against solid competition. Can he still do so? He hasn't shown it yet.

Lawyerly enough for you?
Good points. And yes, it was very thick in a good barrister type of a way. I still disagree though.




btw, I just shot you a good trade offer for Jennings.
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:44 PM   #351
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Thanks for the Chris Chandler - couldnt remember his damn name but i wanted to put him on my list of non- world beater qb's.

Edit: jim kelly should not be on this list imo.
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I was thinking of leaving him and Boomer off. But I don't think they are at the end of the day, in elite category. Clutch, yes. Carry the team on your back? Check. But, in the position of building a new team from scratch with every historical NFL player available, I would pick probably 35 other QB's in the league before I even began to ponder either of them.
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:45 PM   #352
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The whole Beilchick argument is pointless. We are not saying he is a terrible coach. We are saying he is a great coach, but that even a great coach needed Brady for his success as a head coach.

Stud QB or stud defense wins in this league. Im not in disagreement there, its just harder to keep a stud defense together than it is to sign a stud QB to a multiyear contract. Which is why most of those teams that relied on defense was good for a year or two then fell off.
You are overlooking Belichiks defensive genius though by saying he never did it elsewhere. He had success. Also the majority of his head coaching career has been with the Pats and the one year he didnt have Brady he won 11 games. The fact that he didnt make the playoffs is a fluke. How often does that happen? Also and I could be wrong but I believe Belichik had total control the year they drafted Brady - so he deserves credit for that.


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Old 10-27-2012, 03:47 PM   #353
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I was thinking of leaving him and Boomer off. But I don't think they are at the end of the day, in elite category. Clutch, yes. Carry the team on your back? Check. But, in the position of building a new team from scratch with every historical NFL player available, I would pick probably 35 other QB's in the league before I even began to ponder either of them.
Agreed but Chandler and the rest of them wouldnt be in my top 200. Big difference. Plus I went to the U so Kelly is off the list! Lol


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Old 10-27-2012, 03:53 PM   #354
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Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley

We should return this thread to Cooley talk
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:53 PM   #355
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Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley

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You are overlooking Belichiks defensive genius though by saying he never did it elsewhere. He had success. Also the majority of his head coaching career has been with the Pats and the one year he didnt have Brady he won 11 games. The fact that he didnt make the playoffs is a fluke. How often does that happen? Also and I could be wrong but I believe Belichik had total control the year they drafted Brady - so he deserves credit for that.


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Ask Steve Young about Shanny, its not like Shanny was an accountant that all of a sudden was given a HC job. To use other peoples asst coaching successes and conveniently forgetting about others doesnt seem genuine to me. Shanny was given a lot of credit during his days as the OC on Seiferts staff with the 49ers, and they won a SB.

As for drafting Brady, last I checked RG3 was drafted by Shanny, but for the sake of this argument, lets make sure we dont mention that.
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:59 PM   #356
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Why isn't the last like 10 pages in a shanny thread?
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Old 10-27-2012, 04:02 PM   #357
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Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley

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You are overlooking Belichiks defensive genius though by saying he never did it elsewhere. He had success. Also the majority of his head coaching career has been with the Pats and the one year he didnt have Brady he won 11 games. The fact that he didnt make the playoffs is a fluke. How often does that happen? Also and I could be wrong but I believe Belichik had total control the year they drafted Brady - so he deserves credit for that.


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I believe, and I might be wrong, but Kraft once said that Bellicheat did not have admin or personnel control until after 2001. I think Pete Carrolls scouting team did most of the work on the 2000 draft prior to him getting canned for Belicheck (Bobby Greer I think was his name, and I do know that the patriots scouting team (Greer) are the only people to talk to Bradys college coach prior to the draft about drafting him. Brady was not Bellicheks pick, but he wasn't opposed to the proposition of taking a chance on him in the 6th. He gets alot of the credit for alot of homework that was done under Carrolls watch.
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Old 10-27-2012, 04:05 PM   #358
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Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley

So, how about that Cooley, wanting beer in his contract.......................................... ....

(His arms looked a little chunkier than usual to me in the pics I saw of hiim at Redskins park.............)
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Old 10-27-2012, 04:10 PM   #359
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Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley

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So, how about that Cooley, wanting beer in his contract.......................................... ....

(His arms looked a little chunkier than usual to me in the pics I saw of hiim at Redskins park.............)
I dont even want to hear what Davis will be asking for after the season.

If Davis fires his agent and hires Ricky Williams as a new agent, we might want to look at resigning Cooley instead.
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Old 10-27-2012, 04:27 PM   #360
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I was never in any way comparing Belichik to Shanny. I havent even mentioned shannys name?. I just jumped in to defend Belichek - and I dont even like him.
Anyway yeah back to Cooley.



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