Skins/Giants post game thread

[jdc65]

Here's the thing about reasonable expectations heading into the season, and where the team is right now. I believe most fans realistically expected the team to be around a .500 team with a slight chance to make the playoffs if everything broke correctly.

That also goes to expectations that a rookie quarterback would struggle as he grows into the league. My expectations were that the team would carry the water for Griffin this season, asking him to limit mistakes, and not try to do to much. A good running game, strong defense, make a few key plays, and the team will find a way to eek out 7-8 wins.

The fact that Griffin is playing at an elite level changes expectations. The rookie is playing like a potential MVP candidate, and the team still isn't winning. If the defense and special teams were just decent, as they should be 3 years into the program, the Skins would be at 5-2, if not better. With a legitimate chance to win the division, and make some noise in the playoffs.

No one could have expected RG to play at this level so soon, otherwise expectations would have certainly been much higher across the board. Of course, no one could have expected the defense to play as they have either. Special teams to a lesser extent. It's just frustrating.

[jdc65]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

I agree with you 100%. But I'll never forgive Madieu Williams for that blown assignment in letting that bastard Cruz get behind him.

I agree that Williams was at fault for giving up the Cruz touchdown. It seems that Madieu has been a step slow and a split second late on numerous plays in every game. I believe he has literally given up at least 1 touchdown in every game this season because he's a hair or 2 late in coverage.

In my opinion, given his obvious limitations, he is a cover 2 safety only who should have very specific responsibilities. Meaning he can't be counted on to stop the run and cover the pass, he just can't. He also can't cover the whole field. Split the field in half, keep him 15-20 yards back in his half, and he has deep cover responsibility and plays within his zone. The run defense suffers, as well as creative blitzing, but it's better than being burned into toast every week.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by jdc65

Cool, thanks man. I figured I'd lay a little knowledge on ya.

For some reason, this is the most hilarious thing I've seen on the boards since the Skins lost.

[Deivybaby]

Maybe we are just a 4-3 unit just putting it out there. Non of our LB can cover and our secondary been in the 4-3 there whole career other than B.Meriweather.

The DL too been in the 4-3 other than Bowen.

Just IMO maybe we are just a 4-3 team I also believe Orakpo and Kerrigan can do better in the scheme Im sure as hell Cofield would he is not a NT

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Deivybaby

Maybe we are just a 4-3 unit just putting it out there. Non of our LB can cover and our secondary been in the 4-3 there whole career other than B.Meriweather.

The DL too been in the 4-3 other than Bowen.

Just IMO maybe we are just a 4-3 team I also believe Orakpo and Kerrigan can do better in the scheme Im sure as hell Cofield would he is not a NT

So what made us so good last year?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

We have some very creative thinkers here

LOLOL

"creative" - I was going with irrational.

[Kindoy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well, here are my quick thoughts (editor's note: I'll bring "Smoot Lays the Smack Down" when Meriweather, Garcon or Brown return)

RG3: The scramble and thrown on 4th and 10 was incredible. Clearly showed his athletic ability. But more importantly, that's the type of play that more often than not a rookie QB loses sense of where he is and crosses the line of scrimmage before throwing the ball. Good presence of mind on his part. But he can't be absolved for the TOs. The fumble looked like poor awareness on his part. The INT to Paulsen looked like a miscommunication between the two of them. Probably doesn't happen with Davis in there.

Kyle Shanahan: Think he's insanely talented and he'd be missed. But his problem, which I've said before, is that he thinks too hard sometimes. Run on 3rd down? No problem with that. The Redskins had been showing an inability to hold onto the ball and you want to stay in FG range so if you can get 3 and hold them to 3 you're still just down 7. Run an option? Ok, that's a bit of a stretch (no pun intended) but we have the talent to pull it off. Run an option with Niles Paul at that point in the game? That's thinking too hard. That's "they don't expect this so I'll fool them with this" Sometimes you gotta just go with the most obvious play and personnel and execute. Sometimes you gotta just rely on the brawns and not the brains.

Turnovers: The turnovers were terrible but I have a hard time getting worked up over them, because twice we got the ball right back on our turnovers. Heck of an athletic play by Rob Jackson on his INT by the way.

Secondary: I can't really blame the scheme in this scenario. Williams simply made a poor play.

That his second big interception this year. And he followed that pick up with a monster sack that we didn't take advantage of... the guy is playing like a stud.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by Kindoy

That his second big interception this year. And he followed that pick up with a monster sack that we didn't take advantage of... the guy is playing like a stud.

Coach Haz obviously saw something. Somehow he knew that Manning was going to throw an pass near the numbers. Jackson simply dropped back in coverage and read Manning's eyes. He made a nice interception.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

Coach Haz obviously saw something. Somehow he knew that Manning was going to throw an pass near the numbers. Jackson simply dropped back in coverage and read Manning's eyes. He made a nice interception.

Clearly Haslett managed to hit the right xbox button and make Jackson jump at the right time to get that interception.

[Deivybaby]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

So what made us so good last year?

Rex Grossman........

Edit. Where you bring sarcastic or joking lol. I thought the D last year wasnt good we took down the bad offenses but we got dominated by more efficent offenses. Our D wasnt that good it was better than this year but still not good . Had some good games against NY last year and Dallas first meeting but got destroyed trough alot of games.

[Deivybaby]

Originally Posted by Kindoy

That his second big interception this year. And he followed that pick up with a monster sack that we didn't take advantage of... the guy is playing like a stud.

Wouldnt say studddddd but hes not a bad back up he has 2 ints and thats enough for me from a back up.

[jdc65]

Originally Posted by Deivybaby

Maybe we are just a 4-3 unit just putting it out there. Non of our LB can cover and our secondary been in the 4-3 there whole career other than B.Meriweather.

The DL too been in the 4-3 other than Bowen.

Just IMO maybe we are just a 4-3 team I also believe Orakpo and Kerrigan can do better in the scheme Im sure as hell Cofield would he is not a NT

I agree with you 100%, seriously. The 3-4 was a mistake, and it's time to end the experiment. The league had been trending towards a 3-4 because Belichick implemented and won with it in the early 2000's to combat Peyton Manning's offense. But the game has changed so drastically since then, and quarterbacks so much better at reading defenses that pressuring the passer with fewer players is the primary goal now. More defenders to cover more receivers.

It's very rare to find a 3-4 end who can apply constant pressure, Justin Smith and JJ Watt are exceptions. It's much easier to find 4-3 ends who can do it frequently. As it stands now, the Skins can't apply pressure without rushing 5 or more guys. Less guys in coverage is bad if you don't get the Qb quick.

That the Skins' outside linebackers can't cover effectively, and would all be better rushing the Qb makes it a pretty simple decision in my honest opinion. The whole point of a 3-4 is for the outside linebackers to cover receiving targets frequently so that you can blitz other players from different areas.

There are 2 primary goals of defenses today in my estimation. Get the quarterback and take away his targets. Stopping the run is secondary. Of course a 4-3 is better at stopping the run anyway as the team has 2 big tackles inside instead of 1. This 3-4 business of occupying blockers is yesterday's news. Much more important for all linemen to penetrate into the backfield.

I honestly feel that Shanahan wanted to switch to a 3-4 because he wanted to follow the trend while it was hot, when really the trend was reversing the other way. He got on the train while the smart money was getting off.

You want to know where the NFL is going, follow the Patriots. Belichick is a trailblazer. This panic offense he's running is the next thing, when really it's just what high speed college teams have been doing. Defenses are going to a 4-2-5 because more athletic receivers are going out.

Griffin is a new trend, but his skill set is so unique that it's almost impossible to replicate. Have to give Kyle some credit because he lets RG run his Baylor offense with added wrinkles, and most importantly, he stays out of the way and lets Robert be Robert.

[Sonny9TD]

Despite the turnovers we could have won that game. We could have won with 4 turnovers but you can't play defense like the Skins did when Cruz got behind the whole secondary and expect to win. That was more sad than the turnovers. We could be plus 2 in turnovers and lose playing defense like that.

We are one more draft from a contender for the Superbowl. RG3 is a stud and has proven he can keep us in games with any team in this league. Great move to get him Shanny. Now just fix that secondary and another stud linebacker to be groomed by London Fletcher when he can't continue and we will be good. The O-Line could use a stud or 2 but we are very close to turning this around.

[NC_Skins]

Breaking Down the Biggest Plays of NFL Week 7 | Bleacher Report

A good break down on our busted play. (scroll down to Eli's game winning TD pass)

...for a few seconds, anyway. Eli Manning's been playing a long time, and he's led more than his fair share of fourth-quarter comebacks. The Giants faced 2nd-and-10 from their own 22-yard line with 1:23 still left on the clock, and Manning decided he didn't need that long.

They lined up in a shotgun, with trips to the right, a split end out left and a tailback in to block. The Redskins are in an interesting 2-4-5 nickel, with two defensive tackles up front, four linebackers and five defensive backs:




The two outside linebackers blitz, leaving the two inside 'backers in zone coverage. Tight end Martellus Bennett is the inside slot receiver in the trips group, and he (sort of) chips the blitzer before running a five-yard out. The other two receivers in the trips are the ones who matter:


Victor Cruz is running a fly route, and the other receiver runs a deep curl. This puts pressure on safety Madieu Williams, who's got the deep zone coverage.

The protection sets up nicely for Manning—the blitzers are picked up. Cruz beats his man Dijon Gomes cleanly, and Williams sees it. He sees it...and...does...nothing:


Williams takes forever to flip his hips and go. Cruz flies past him at full throttle before he can even turn. Manning makes the read and delivers the ball, with Cruz two steps clear of both Williams and Gomes:



The rest is salsa. Cruz scores the game-winning touchdown, and Manning—after a rough game—puts another notch in his belt.

Cliffnotes: Williams is garbage.

[Deivybaby]

Originally Posted by jdc65

I agree with you 100%, seriously. The 3-4 was a mistake, and it's time to end the experiment. The league had been trending towards a 3-4 because Belichick implemented and won with it in the early 2000's to combat Peyton Manning's offense. But the game has changed so drastically since then, and quarterbacks so much better at reading defenses that pressuring the passer with fewer players is the primary goal now. More defenders to cover more receivers.

It's very rare to find a 3-4 end who can apply constant pressure, Justin Smith and JJ Watt are exceptions. It's much easier to find 4-3 ends who can do it frequently. As it stands now, the Skins can't apply pressure without rushing 5 or more guys. Less guys in coverage is bad if you don't get the Qb quick.

That the Skins' outside linebackers can't cover effectively, and would all be better rushing the Qb makes it a pretty simple decision in my honest opinion. The whole point of a 3-4 is for the outside linebackers to cover receiving targets frequently so that you can blitz other players from different areas.

There are 2 primary goals of defenses today in my estimation. Get the quarterback and take away his targets. Stopping the run is secondary. Of course a 4-3 is better at stopping the run anyway as the team has 2 big tackles inside instead of 1. This 3-4 business of occupying blockers is yesterday's news. Much more important for all linemen to penetrate into the backfield.

I honestly feel that Shanahan wanted to switch to a 3-4 because he wanted to follow the trend while it was hot, when really the trend was reversing the other way. He got on the train while the smart money was getting off.

You want to know where the NFL is going, follow the Patriots. Belichick is a trailblazer. This panic offense he's running is the next thing, when really it's just what high speed college teams have been doing. Defenses are going to a 4-2-5 because more athletic receivers are going out.

Griffin is a new trend, but his skill set is so unique that it's almost impossible to replicate. Have to give Kyle some credit because he lets RG run his Baylor offense with added wrinkles, and most importantly, he stays out of the way and lets Robert be Robert.

i agree. The problem is out 3-4 lb are not quick or consistent enough to get oressure we also have no real pass rusing 3-4 dl and we have no good secondary. We should stop the eperiment we can nect year raheem morris can be the 4-3 coach and he studied under mpnte kiffin in only makes sense shanny should be smart man he did thia in denver and was stubburn