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Old 10-23-2012, 03:46 PM   #136
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Re: Raheem Morris

There' been plays like that before. Does everyone remember the Monday Night Miracle in Dallas were Santana Moss got behind Roy Williams not once but twice? Madieu Williams seemed like he just froze or something and Cruz flew past him. You can't do that. Now Mike Shanahan is trying to downplay it in the media.

Cruz was the Giants most dangerous receiver. He's had receptions of 99 and 80 yards in his career. He even had over 1,500 yards receiving last year. How does the defense allow that to happen? I'm willing to forgive Williams and overlook his blunder only because he got a pick 6 against the Vikings.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:52 PM   #137
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Re: Raheem Morris

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The defense lost the game by giving up a 77 yd TD to Cruz. The offense contributed to this by turning the ball over 3 times, going 0-2 in the red zone, only getting three points off turnovers, and not scoring any points in the 3rd quarter.
The difference is the offense did what it had to when the game was on the line and when it mattered most, the defense did not. They crapped the bed.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:15 PM   #138
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Re: Raheem Morris

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The difference is the offense did what it had to when the game was on the line and when it mattered most, the defense did not. They crapped the bed.
If the offense had cut down on the mistakes early on, the game would not have been on the line. As I've said, I am not excusing the horrible defensive gaffe, but you can't beat the Giants or any good team by expecting offensive/defensive heroics in the 4th quarter.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:19 PM   #139
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Re: Raheem Morris

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Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
If the offense had cut down on the mistakes early on, the game would not have been on the line. As I've said, I am not excusing the horrible defensive gaffe, but you can't beat the Giants or any good team by expecting offensive/defensive heroics in the 4th quarter.
Well, we hoped for and got offensive heroics.

What we did not get was a defense, specifically a defensive secondary - specifically a safety, doing his job. Not heroics, just what he, as a safety, was supposed to do - guard against the deep pass. Expecting that of a safety in the last two minutes of a game is not expecting heroics; it is expecting players to do their jobs.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:27 PM   #140
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Re: Raheem Morris

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Well, we hoped for and got offensive heroics.

What we did not get was a defense, specifically a defensive secondary - specifically a safety, doing his job. Not heroics, just what he, as a safety, was supposed to do - guard against the deep pass. Expecting that of a safety in the last two minutes of a game is not expecting heroics; it is expecting players to do their jobs.
I agree with your assessment of the safety, Williams f*cked up big time. The defense's job was to stop Manning and Co. from scoring and they didn't do the job. We have a subpar defense that will and has cost this team wins.

That being said, you beat good teams by limiting your mistakes or playing a mistake free football. You can't overlook all the mistakes the offense made in the first three quarters. The reason I keep banging this drum is that we are going to play another team that is notorious for comebacks late in the game.

Unfortunately, this team doesn't have the luxury of having a defense that will allow an offense to overcome earlier mistakes period. Would I want that? Hell yes. But that is not the reality, well not yet at least, because as many have pointed out this team has not reached its full potential. I think this team has the potential of having an offense like Manning's Colts or the Patriots of the past two years. An offense that can carry a crappy defense and win games against good teams.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:34 PM   #141
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Re: Raheem Morris

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There' been plays like that before. Does everyone remember the Monday Night Miracle in Dallas were Santana Moss got behind Roy Williams not once but twice? Madieu Williams seemed like he just froze or something and Cruz flew past him. You can't do that. Now Mike Shanahan is trying to downplay it in the media.

Cruz was the Giants most dangerous receiver. He's had receptions of 99 and 80 yards in his career. He even had over 1,500 yards receiving last year. How does the defense allow that to happen? I'm willing to forgive Williams and overlook his blunder only because he got a pick 6 against the Vikings.
Didn't you kinda answer your own question? This was not a rookie with no talent. Cruz/Manning is a combination that is deadly in the closing minutes.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:37 PM   #142
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Re: Raheem Morris

You don't overlook them but keeping the Giants from scoring a TD with a little over a minute left would have never been a miracle. The defense helped bail the offense out of some of those mistakes but when they had to get just one more stop they folded like it was nothing.

btw just saw Mangini talk on Sportsnation about the Cruz TD and he said that the play call was the right one but Williams has to be able to recognize where Cruz is taking his route and pick up speed, not squat on the route. I'm sure most of us could already tell that was the issue but I thought people would be interested to know what Mangini said.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:39 PM   #143
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Re: Raheem Morris

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You don't overlook them but keeping the Giants from scoring a TD with a little over a minute left would have never been a miracle. The defense helped bail the offense out of some of those mistakes but when they had to get just one more stop they folded like it was nothing.

btw just saw Mangini talk on Sportsnation about the Cruz TD and he said that the play call was the right one but Williams has to be able to recognize where Cruz is taking his route and pick up speed, not squat on the route. I'm sure most of us could already tell that was the issue but I thought people would be interested to know what Mangini said.
Agreed, Williams is not a rookie, he needs to be able to recognize things like that.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:55 PM   #144
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Re: Raheem Morris

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Well, we hoped for and got offensive heroics.

What we did not get was a defense, specifically a defensive secondary - specifically a safety, doing his job. Not heroics, just what he, as a safety, was supposed to do - guard against the deep pass. Expecting that of a safety in the last two minutes of a game is not expecting heroics; it is expecting players to do their jobs.
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How in the HELL can anyone justify letting Cruz(or anyone).......just run by in that situation...?....? Foul his ass....But DO something...
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:06 PM   #145
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Re: Raheem Morris

You would also think he would have the fact that they need a TD to win in the back of his mind. Knowing that, he's better off erring on the side of caution and maybe playing a bit deeper no matter what Cruz does. If the route comes back inside then at least he can make a tackle and it's likely not a TD.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:05 AM   #146
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Re: Raheem Morris

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Well its not an automatic field goal first of all, and second of all we are acting like we didnt know Williams was old and slow until this play occured. Again - in this particular situation - Eli Manning and the Giants on a potential game winning drive, I think you have to swallow your pride a little bit and accept the fact that no matter what you call with our personnel that they are going to eat you up with 1:30 left. So - again - play it safe. Keep them out of the endzone at all costs, and take your chances on them getting into fieldgoal range - worse case scenario is OT. I understand what we did, I just dont agree with it. I am not usually conservative in thought when I watch the games - trust me. I was loving those 4th down calls - loving them. This last drive by the Giants I wanted conservative and didnt get it. They got burned. My wife for the first time in my life was watching and cheering for the Redskins and yelling GO GO GO when Moss caught that ball. I could not believe it. I stand by my original statement that if we could play that last sequence over agian there is no way Williams is not 25 yards off the line of scrimmage, and we are not going conservative. oh well. I still think we win the division so who cares.
so they should play defense expecting to get beaten?? thats some odd logic. at the end of the day it always comes down to raw ability and talent. right now we dont have that at our safties positions.

the biggest mistake i see our secondary making is not bumping anyone on the line. if you are playing cover 2 with a safety deep, then the db should be on the line jamming the crap out of the wr to throw off the timing of the route. and that in my opinion is a coaching issue, and still don't understand why it hasn't been more talked about.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:13 AM   #147
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Re: Raheem Morris

From Keim on the concept of jamming at the line:

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CB Josh Wilson. Canít completely blame him for the Cruz touchdown because the safety didnít do his job. But Wilson was involved in the play. No, he did not jam Cruz on the play. Iíve talked often to Wilson about when he jams and when he doesnít and there are some players who are tough to do that against. I remember seeing one time where he re-routed Cruz, but he did not attempt to jam him any other time. Itís usually up to the corner to decide when to jam or not Ė not all are comfortable doing this. Perhaps this is a play he should have gotten his hands on him a little. Anyway, on this play he wanted to shade him inside and get underneath. He did so.
Redskins vs. Giants: Studs and Duds (defense) | WashingtonExaminer.com
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:42 AM   #148
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so they should play defense expecting to get beaten?? thats some odd logic. at the end of the day it always comes down to raw ability and talent. right now we dont have that at our safties positions.

the biggest mistake i see our secondary making is not bumping anyone on the line. if you are playing cover 2 with a safety deep, then the db should be on the line jamming the crap out of the wr to throw off the timing of the route. and that in my opinion is a coaching issue, and still don't understand why it hasn't been more talked about.
No - you play a defense that at all costs doesnt allow you to give up 7. Prevent.


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Old 10-24-2012, 10:50 AM   #149
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Re: Raheem Morris

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No - you play a defense that at all costs doesnt allow you to give up 7. Prevent.


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Completely agree. Though, when Haslett does so and Eli eats up the 10 yd ins and comebacks giving up the FG with time running out and the Giants win in OT every fan wants him fired for playing "prevent the win" defense. How does he win in the court of public opinion? He's an above average (B student) defense coordinator but every fan knows more. Now Morris, who many wanted to replace Haslett, is the goat. Ouch.
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:19 AM   #150
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Re: Raheem Morris

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No - you play a defense that at all costs doesnt allow you to give up 7. Prevent.


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They had over a minute, 3 time outs, could use the middle of the field, and the whole length. Some offenses you can play prevent and know that they won't get in. Sorry the Giant's with Eli have an amazing 2 minute drill, and prevent simply does not seem to me that it would have worked better. I guarantee a part of it was that our players were looking for a turnover, jumping a short route, and got caught guessing wrong.

It's Wednesday, can we close this thread and turn the page?
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