Should Mike Shanahan Be Canonized?

Bushead · 12-17-2012, 12:16 AM

My mind hurts.

donofriose · 12-17-2012, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

No. I never implied anything like that.

Griffin is the youngest starting quarterback in the league. But that's also the only position on the Skins where we are measurably younger than everyone else in the league. But when you considered that we traded future draft picks for that one player...then it's not a stretch to point out the absurdity of calling one player a youth movement.

It's fair to say that the Shanahan-Redskins have been youth-conscious. But to suggest they are actually young goes against the numbers.

"Here's the youth movement: Griffin is 22. That's it. That's the youth."

- That is what you stated in your previous post. We are also young at RB, TE (we signed cooley because Davis got injured more of a desperation move) and OLB. Yes we do still have a lot of older players but to say Griffin/quarterbacks is the only young depth chart we have I believe is inaccurate.

HailGreen28 · 12-17-2012, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think we were 31st in the league in av. age in 2009. We're like 23rd or something now.

But it's not like they could have reasonably trended anywhere but where they did go, just simple regression towards the mean. If the Redskins suddenly get really young in the next two years, then, yeah, we can call it a youth movement. But that's not where I suspect this roster is headed.

Can't deny the direction Shanny has taken the team though. Towards youth, especially our starters. And that's with 39 year old Sav Rocca on the team. (Lol had no idea he was older than Fletch)

CRedskinsRule · 12-17-2012, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The average age of the Redskins roster is still on the older side. The idea of the youth movement is real, but a lot of those players are at the end of their rookie contracts now and will be expensive to retain (or already are expensive, such as Garcon or Morgan).

Here's the youth movement: Griffin is 22. That's it. That's the youth. Five years from now, Aaron Rodgers will be 34, Peyton Manning will be 41, and Drew Brees will be 38. Griffin will be 27.

7 players are over 30:
Rocca 39
Fletcher 37
Moss 33
Jordan Black 32
Grossman 32
J Brown 31
Madieu Williams 31

Everyone else is 30 or under.

23 are 22 -24 yo, and that includes:
2 qbs and our starting:
RB, LT, MLB(Riley), OLB
and key but not necessarily starting:
WR(2), CB, TE, DE, RB

The roster currently shows solid youth, and some solid "aged" veterans.

GTripp0012 · 12-17-2012, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donofriose

"Here's the youth movement: Griffin is 22. That's it. That's the youth."

- That is what you stated in your previous post. We are also young at RB, TE (we signed cooley because Davis got injured more of a desperation move) and OLB. Yes we do still have a lot of older players but to say Griffin/quarterbacks is the only young depth chart we have I believe is inaccurate.

Youth movement!

Quarterback is the spot on the field where we are measurably younger than the rest of the NFL. We're "not old" at a whole bunch of other places, but so is every team.

JoeRedskin · 12-17-2012, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

No. I never implied anything like that.

BS... that is exactly what you said.!

CRedskinsRule · 12-17-2012, 12:30 AM

Also, If a team is making a youth movement, I think the positions you would like to fill are exactly what we have. QB, RB (since they age "faster" obviously), LT, and MLB. We have, Griffin(22), Morris(24), Williams(24) and Riley(24), all under contract and reasonably certain we will be able to resign them when they come up.

GTripp0012 · 12-17-2012, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

BS... that is exactly what you said.!

Completely false.

GTripp0012 · 12-17-2012, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Also, If a team is making a youth movement, I think the positions you would like to fill are exactly what we have. QB, RB (since they age "faster" obviously), LT, and MLB. We have, Griffin(22), Morris(24), Williams(24) and Riley(24), all under contract and reasonably certain we will be able to resign them when they come up.

Well sure, adding key players at key positions through the draft is a major reason why we're enjoying this recent run of success.

I just don't understand why people think that the Redskins getting returns on their draft suddenly makes them unique or young when the numbers say otherwise.

JoeRedskin · 12-17-2012, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well sure, adding key players at key positions through the draft is a major reason why we're enjoying this recent run of success.

I just don't understand why people think that the Redskins getting returns on their draft suddenly makes them unique or young when the numbers say otherwise.

Who's saying we are "unique". We are, at least I am simply crediting MS and BA for adding youth and depth in a manner we haven't seen in the last 15 years at least.

You have consistently criticized both the talent acquisition of MS and the usage of that talent. I simply posit, regardless of how other teams build their roster, I am pleased with MS's roster and his usage of the same.

12thMan · 12-17-2012, 12:46 AM

First of all, youth movement is an often overrated and misused term. By the standard of the some, how many "young" teams have won Super Bowls or conference championships in the past 10 years? If you're young and competent at key positions, that's the point. Hell, Jacksonville is a young team, but they play like crap. So who gives a shit at the end of the day.

Secondly, the Redskins have been very fortunate with injuries this year. Yes, we've suffered some injuries, but the offensive side of the ball has remained largely -- 98% in tack. On defense, except for Rak and Carriker, we've pretty much fielded all of our starters.

CRedskinsRule · 12-17-2012, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well sure, adding key players at key positions through the draft is a major reason why we're enjoying this recent run of success.

I just don't understand why people think that the Redskins getting returns on their draft suddenly makes them unique or young when the numbers say otherwise.

It makes people think that we are using youth instead of relying on aged veterans (ie the over the hill gang, or the 2009 Skins) Hence the term youth movement. This isn't a complicated concept, and you sound more like a bitter old man who grudgingly gives ground rather than the guy who would at some points in the past write fairly interesting breakdowns of the games. You are arguing over where the Skins fall in this list:

Quote:

1 Rams 25.32
2 Eagles 25.55
3 Browns 25.62
4 Vikings 25.64
5 Packers 25.65
6 Buccaneers 25.69
7 Seahawks 25.77
8 Chiefs 25.8
9 Patriots 25.81
10 Titans 25.85
11 Bengals 25.87
12 Panthers 25.91
13 Dolphins 25.91
14 Cowboys 26
15 Colts 26.02
16 Jaguars 26.06
17 Saints 26.34
18 Raiders 26.38
19 Giants 26.4
20 Ravens 26.4
21 Texans 26.42
22 Broncos 26.47
23 Redskins 26.53
24 Steelers 26.56
25 Bills 26.57
26 49ers 26.64
27 Bears 26.66
28 Cardinals 26.91
29 Lions 26.93
30 Falcons 26.98
31 Chargers 27.15

saying the move up was to be expected. Duh. But a youth movement isn't discussing team age, it's discussing the age of your starters, and how long you can reasonably expect the core to be around. We have a good youthful core, and can reasonably expect to add several in each of the next two drafts (not a first round pick, but 2-7th both years).

Bottomline: To argue or imply no youth movement is a far more shallow analysis than you are capable of.

GTripp0012 · 12-17-2012, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Who's saying we are "unique". We are, at least I am simply crediting MS and BA for adding youth and depth in a manner we haven't seen in the last 15 years at least.

You have consistently criticized both the talent acquisition of MS and the usage of that talent. I simply posit, regardless of how other teams build their roster, I am pleased with MS's roster and his usage of the same.

I'm very impressed with the last five games and still fairly unimpressed with the big picture, but you knew both of those things already. Either way, they've done a good job with this team, emphasis on the word team.

Bushead · 12-17-2012, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

It makes people think that we are using youth instead of relying on aged veterans (ie the over the hill gang, or the 2009 Skins) Hence the term youth movement. This isn't a complicated concept, and you sound more like a bitter old man who grudgingly gives ground rather than the guy who would at some points in the past write fairly interesting breakdowns of the games. You are arguing over where the Skins fall in this list:

saying the move up was to be expected. Duh. But a youth movement isn't discussing team age, it's discussing the age of your starters, and how long you can reasonably expect the core to be around. We have a good youthful core, and can reasonably expect to add several in each of the next two drafts (not a first round pick, but 2-7th both years).

Bottomline: To argue or imply no youth movement is a far more shallow analysis than you are capable of.

I think that is a fair assessment.

GTripp0012 · 12-17-2012, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

It makes people think that we are using youth instead of relying on aged veterans (ie the over the hill gang, or the 2009 Skins) Hence the term youth movement. This isn't a complicated concept, and you sound more like a bitter old man who grudgingly gives ground rather than the guy who would at some points in the past write fairly interesting breakdowns of the games. You are arguing over where the Skins fall in this list:

saying the move up was to be expected. Duh. But a youth movement isn't discussing team age, it's discussing the age of your starters, and how long you can reasonably expect the core to be around. We have a good youthful core, and can reasonably expect to add several in each of the next two drafts (not a first round pick, but 2-7th both years).

Bottomline: To argue or imply no youth movement is a far more shallow analysis than you are capable of.

I always deal in the reality of the situation and if that's going to turn me into a bitter old man, then I can live with that. I know little of this "giving ground" you speak of though. I've been pretty consistent throughout this.

View Poll Results: Should Mike Shanahan Be Canonized?
Yes! Saint Shanny!	22	26.83%
Nah, Just Make Him the 5th President on "Mt. Rushmore"	16	19.51%
Not Unless You Mean Shot Out of a Canon	20	24.39%
I Have No Sense Of Humor and Don't Get This	24	29.27%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

12-17-2012, 12:16 AM	#91
Bushead Impact Rookie Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 745	Re: Should Mike Shanahan Be Canonized? My mind hurts.

12-17-2012, 12:30 AM	#97
CRedskinsRule MVP Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Pasadena, Md Age: 46 Posts: 11,568	Re: Should Mike Shanahan Be Canonized? Also, If a team is making a youth movement, I think the positions you would like to fill are exactly what we have. QB, RB (since they age "faster" obviously), LT, and MLB. We have, Griffin(22), Morris(24), Williams(24) and Riley(24), all under contract and reasonably certain we will be able to resign them when they come up.

12-17-2012, 12:46 AM	#101
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,445	Re: Should Mike Shanahan Be Canonized? First of all, youth movement is an often overrated and misused term. By the standard of the some, how many "young" teams have won Super Bowls or conference championships in the past 10 years? If you're young and competent at key positions, that's the point. Hell, Jacksonville is a young team, but they play like crap. So who gives a shit at the end of the day. Secondly, the Redskins have been very fortunate with injuries this year. Yes, we've suffered some injuries, but the offensive side of the ball has remained largely -- 98% in tack. On defense, except for Rak and Carriker, we've pretty much fielded all of our starters.

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Should Mike Shanahan Be Canonized?

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