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Subtle Running Back Shuffle

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Old 11-20-2012, 06:46 PM   #61
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

Why don't we have Darrel Young carrying the ball more? I think he might be as effective as Morris on the zone read and from tackle to tackle.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:52 PM   #62
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

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I was expecting a FB dive there.
That 3rd and short play calling is constantly an issue. Maybe it's trickery, maybe it's just closing your eyes and pointing at the 3rd and short play calls in the playbook, but there has GOT to be something better than a pitch, 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage in hopes of getting the first down.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:53 PM   #63
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

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That 3rd and short play calling is constantly an issue. Maybe it's trickery, maybe it's just closing your eyes and pointing at the 3rd and short play calls in the playbook, but there has GOT to be something better than a pitch, 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage in hopes of getting the first down.
Agreed. Methinks sometimes Kyle gets too cute.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:07 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by DynamiteRave View Post
That 3rd and short play calling is constantly an issue. Maybe it's trickery, maybe it's just closing your eyes and pointing at the 3rd and short play calls in the playbook, but there has GOT to be something better than a pitch, 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage in hopes of getting the first down.
Agreed. Just knuckle down and push them back.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:13 PM   #65
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

On third and short I'd like to see more just running at the other team then trying to run around them.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:19 PM   #66
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

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On third and short I'd like to see more just running at the other team then trying to run around them.
That's why I don't understand. You've got big Morris, Young, hell in a worse case scenario, you could even use Cooley. But I just don't get the pitching thing. You got big guys back there, let them do their job.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:54 PM   #67
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

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That's why I don't understand. You've got big Morris, Young, hell in a worse case scenario, you could even use Cooley. But I just don't get the pitching thing. You got big guys back there, let them do their job.
The irony was when we had smaller backs (Portis) we'd run it straight into the line for a loss more often than not.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:08 PM   #68
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

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The irony was when we had smaller backs (Portis) we'd run it straight into the line for a loss more often than not.
CP could run well between the tackles. I recall one victory against the eagles. We needed a first down on short yardage to be able to run the clock out and win. Portis basically demanded the ball and got the first down.

I think the reason Portis could run for short yardage, and we're reluctant to pound the middle in short yardage now, is the difference in our offensive line then and now. Back in Portis' day, our OL was built for smashmouth. Now, we have quicker guys for ZBS.

I still think on normal downs we could use Young on some of the interior runs, to help keep Morris from wearing out.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:08 PM   #69
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

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CP could run well between the tackles. I recall one victory against the eagles. We needed a first down on short yardage to be able to run the clock out and win. Portis basically demanded the ball and got the first down.

I think the reason Portis could run for short yardage, and we're reluctant to pound the middle in short yardage now, is the difference in our offensive line then and now. Back in Portis' day, our OL was built for smashmouth. Now, we have quicker guys for ZBS.

I still think on normal downs we could use Young on some of the interior runs, to help keep Morris from wearing out.
Really good point about how the OL is now configured for zone blocking rather than bulldozing. Still, giving up 3 yards to pitch the ball on a short yardage play on the goal line drives me crazy too.

And yes, I agree that Kyle may overthink things at times. We've got to figure some kind of interior power game for short yardage situations. Whatever happened to the quarterback draw, by the way?
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:15 PM   #70
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

Regardless of the call, if you can't pick up a yard on 3rd down, I have to point the finger at the OL for ultimately not getting the job done.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:16 PM   #71
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

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The irony was when we had smaller backs (Portis) we'd run it straight into the line for a loss more often than not.
We had a line better suited for power plays back then. Now we're a zone line that's best when moving side to side.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:19 PM   #72
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

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Regardless of the call, if you can't pick up a yard on 3rd down, I have to point the finger at the OL for ultimately not getting the job done.
We don't really have an oline built to overpower a dline going "toe to toe" though right? I guess my thinking was that's part of the reason we see the idiotic pitches or even gadget plays when we run the ball on short yardage downs. Not that we have to limit the playbook to pitches/gadget plays, but "we" haven't figured that out yet.

??
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:22 PM   #73
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

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We don't really have an oline built to overpower a dline going "toe to toe" though right? I guess my thinking was that's part of the reason we see the idiotic pitches or even gadget plays when we run the ball on short yardage downs. Not that we have to limit the playbook to pitches/gadget plays, but "we" haven't figured that out yet.

??
We've run some dives and and power runs on short yardage too though.

Sometimes you have to go against your tendencies. Or perhaps there was something on film the coaches thought they could exploit. I know, it's easier to just blast a play in hindsight when it doesn't work.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:45 PM   #74
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

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We've run some dives and and power runs on short yardage too though.

Sometimes you have to go against your tendencies. Or perhaps there was something on film the coaches thought they could exploit. I know, it's easier to just blast a play in hindsight when it doesn't work.
That's true, mostly on short/quick counts to Young, and they've worked the times I can remember. You're right the quick dive would have been better than the pitch/gadget. I was actually thinking more about a base formation and pulling a guard, and since one of the best features of ZBS is quicker/mobile linemen our guards should be good to go. I know pulling a guard isn't a tradition short yardage play, but there you've got bigger/heavier/slower lineman and a QB not nearly as talented with the hard count as RG3.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:09 AM   #75
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Re: Subtle Running Back Shuffle

Well I don't understand voluntarily making a 3rd and 6 inches a 3rd and 3. But anyway if Helu comes back healthy next year I don't know how you don't use him. Haven't checked myself but Bucket posted AM and Helu have the same amount of total yards in the same amount of games using Helu's stats from last year. I'm sure more of Helu's came from receiving than AM's did but I would want Helu in the game at times partly because he is a better receiver and partly because he has a better chance of breaking one and going to the house with it. I remember him running one in from about 28 yds. out last year and he wasn't 100%. With Helu from 3rd and 3 or 4 you really don't know what he's gonna do. And like SS says...there's your breather and saving some wear and tear for Morris. Of course all this depends on him getting and staying healthy which is no sure thing.
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