Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide

Redskins Locker Room


Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-07-2012, 12:09 PM   #91
New HC, new hope!
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,702
Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide

And we're back to reading comprehension......

I stated "it wouldn't be a stretch to suggest that an aggressive athlete that has had multiple injuries to this part of the brain may be more susceptible to rage." but thanks for the convenient partial quote.

If you rage you lose the ability to control, you're not about to recognize that.

One of the most common effects of frontal damage can be a dramatic change in social behavior. A person's personality can undergo significant changes after an injury to the frontal lobes, especially when both lobes are involved. There are some differences in the left versus right frontal lobes in this area. Left frontal damage usually manifests as pseudodepression and right frontal damage as pseudopsychopathic (Blumer and Benson, 1975).

There's ton of research out there which I'm not filling the forum with, Google it yourself.

Proving your point? No, I wasn't but if you choose to use that tired old rhetorical trick, feel free.

First you said the person needs to recognize they're raging, then you're saying "Society is to blame"? It's purely on the poor impulse control of the person, not society.

Should Bi-polar/schizophrenics seek out treatment? I doubt most are capable without the intervention/help of others.

This conversation isn't going anywhere productive. I'm done. I feel sorry for everyone concerned including the shooter.

OMFG, it's NOT ****ing *EVIL*!

No such thing!
RedskinRat is offline  

Advertisements
Old 12-07-2012, 12:12 PM   #92
MVP
 
Chico23231's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Age: 37
Posts: 11,652
Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I don't know, doubt anyone here does either, what Belcher's mental state was. And I especially know that I'm in no position to understand how his teammates are coping or how they should feel
Regardless of mental state, Belcher is certainly not a victim. Lets be clear.

Chiefs, family and team has handled this about as well as anyone could have. Its a tough, sad situation for all.
__________________
Ditka for President
Chico23231 is online now  
Old 12-07-2012, 12:50 PM   #93
Gamebreaker
 
CRedskinsRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pasadena, Md
Age: 47
Posts: 12,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat View Post
...

People "snap" because society tolerates that behavior and makes excuses for it. If it didnt, i think you would find alot less people would "snap."
as you said, please provide evidence to support this. We don't know near enough about the limits of the brain capacities to say what makes someone snap. The whole point of saying someone snapped means they went past a point where there mental capacity to respond rationally was there. Explain please how societal pressure at that moment would make a hill of beans difference. The answer is in that moment it doesn't. Geez. Don't make me snap!
__________________
Dirtbag59, sending songs to oblivion 1 writer at a time.
CRedskinsRule is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 01:49 PM   #94
Living Legend
 
Ruhskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,022
Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat View Post
I agree with both of those statements. I just beleive it doesnt matter what mental state he was in. he is responsible for allowing himself to get in whatever state it was that allowed him to murder another human being. I also dont think we can dictate how other people should FEEL when coping with a situation like this. My opinion is just that a tribute at his locker is disrepectful.
I think you are trying to make a complicated situation into something simple.

Oh and those disrespectful people who you are dictating how should feel and cope just created a trust fund for that little girl.
__________________
R.I.P. #21

New words created on The Warpath:
Rewalsr - Somretimes - Fualt - Jersesy - Itiot - Composetory
Afeard - Storgn - Empliment - Gaissn - Saftys - Minnisota
Faviort - Hatter - Phsyched - Foof - Heloing - Brutual
Stroried

"Give an opinion and move on. Your life doesn't depend on winning the internet." -FRPLG
Ruhskins is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 02:00 PM   #95
Pro Bowl
 
punch it in's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: toms river, nj
Age: 43
Posts: 5,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRPLG View Post
Because to them he was a friend, a teammate, a family member...someone who mattered to them. Ultimately what he did in the end defines him but to the people who knew him there's no switch to forget all the stuff they loved.

To you, someone who didn't know him, its easy to just define him as a killer because that's all you know of him.
I include the teammates when i say people he traumatized. I feel horrible for them and the fact that they had to digest all of this and play that day. If a friend of mine or my brother killed my sister in law in front of my mother i do not think i could just go to work the next day. However i would still have to face the fact that my brother was a cold blooded killer and i probably would not be building a monument of sorts in his honor.
__________________
"Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate." Vince Lombardi
punch it in is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 02:08 PM   #96
Pro Bowl
 
punch it in's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: toms river, nj
Age: 43
Posts: 5,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
Very well said.

I'm sick of these mindless babbling morons that talk about him being a coward, a killer, etc., etc. all to win an argument on the internet (you should see the comments section on ESPN.com, ridiculous).

This whole situation is a tragedy for everyone involved. Part of that tragedy is whatever went wrong in the mind of Belcher that drove him to commit such terrible act.

It's just sad situation all around.
It is sad that Belcher did this in every aspect including Belcher as a person. But before you call anyone a moron for calling him a killer - which he is by the way. Ask yourself one question. What if it was your friend, daughter , or sister? What if that was your niece or granddaughter he orphaned. Because they were those things to other people. Would you than say - oh he was a good person who made one horrible mistake? No you would think of him only as a coward and a killer. Im putting myself and my thoughts in the shoes and minds of the true victims here.
Edit: i can only imagine what some people are saying. I have never walked in Belchers shoes and for all i know he was completely out of his head mentally to do what he did. So was Rae Carruth im sure. Somewhere Belchers soul is realizing what he did and he must live with it for all of eternity. That is what i believe. Im sure the guy was slightly (obviously an understatement) unstable . However he was stable enough to drive himself to the stadium and thank his coach and gm for everything they did for him so it sounds like he was pretty aware of his actions. The tribute in his locker was in horrible taste and the true victims here are the friends and family of the girlfriend and daughter.
__________________
"Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate." Vince Lombardi

Last edited by punch it in; 12-07-2012 at 02:27 PM.
punch it in is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 02:40 PM   #97
Pro Bowl
 
punch it in's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: toms river, nj
Age: 43
Posts: 5,593
Im sorry for the rants here but im confused about something. What makes Belcher different than any other person who has ever killed an innocent person? My brothers best friend and wife were gunned down by a maniac killer after the man slit his granddaughters throat in front of his daughter. Believe when i tell you that the fact the guy was a psychopath means nothing to my brother or us or the family members. For the absolute life of me i cannot comprehend that the Chiefs hung his jersey in his locker and paid tribute to him. Columbine was a sad situation, but has anyone ever thought "gee its a shame about that boy and what he must have been going through?" What exactly makes Belchers situation different than anyother cold blooded killer? Imo one life is as valuable as one million lives.
__________________
"Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate." Vince Lombardi
punch it in is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 02:49 PM   #98
Impact Rookie
 
Gary84Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 793
Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide

squawk should be spelled sqwawk right?
Gary84Clark is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 02:56 PM   #99
Pro Bowl
 
punch it in's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: toms river, nj
Age: 43
Posts: 5,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary84Clark View Post
squawk should be spelled sqwawk right?
No its squawk and im very passionate about this particular thread because i have been affected personally by a murderer. So again im sorry for my rants but i just dont get the fact that their seems to be a gray area here. The man killed - he is a killer, and other than - "this scumbag took a life and hurt alot of people (including his teammates" - imo there is nothing else to say about it! It is no different than any other murder!
Im done.
__________________
"Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate." Vince Lombardi
punch it in is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 03:24 PM   #100
The Starter
 
warriorzpath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,659
Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide

Quote:
Originally Posted by punch it in View Post
No its squawk and im very passionate about this particular thread because i have been affected personally by a murderer. So again im sorry for my rants but i just dont get the fact that their seems to be a gray area here. The man killed - he is a killer, and other than - "this scumbag took a life and hurt alot of people (including his teammates" - imo there is nothing else to say about it! It is no different than any other murder!
Im done.
I think that you and everyone involved being angry about the personal experiences that you described is natural and a given but by you grouping senseless or unthinkable killings together trivializes your own experiences with it - because I think that each person needs to take their own situation as uniquely their own - that way you can honor it. I don't think there's a gray area with belchers act, but it is unique to those affected by it. Saying one murder is like any other murder dishonors anyone affected that ever had to experience something like this.
warriorzpath is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 03:31 PM   #101
Pro Bowl
 
punch it in's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: toms river, nj
Age: 43
Posts: 5,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorzpath View Post
I think that you and everyone involved being angry about the personal experiences that you described is natural and a given but by you grouping senseless or unthinkable killings together trivializes your own experiences with it - because I think that each person needs to take their own situation as uniquely their own - that way you can honor it. I don't think there's a gray area with belchers act, but it is unique to those affected by it. Saying one murder is like any other murder dishonors anyone affected that ever had to experience something like this.
I meant the act of murder - is the same. Of course if my brother was murdered trying to buy drugs, it is different than if my brother was shot senselessly while playing with his daughter at a playground. In the first example he was somewhere he shouldnt have been, and the second is strait up tragic. I hear you. The guy that pulled the trigger in each example is just as wrong - taking a life is taking a life. That is all i meant.
__________________
"Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate." Vince Lombardi
punch it in is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 03:41 PM   #102
The Starter
 
warriorzpath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,659
Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide

Quote:
Originally Posted by punch it in View Post
I meant the act of murder - is the same. Of course if my brother was murdered trying to buy drugs, it is different than if my brother was shot senselessly while playing with his daughter at a playground. In the first example he was somewhere he shouldnt have been, and the second is strait up tragic. I hear you. The guy that pulled the trigger in each example is just as wrong - taking a life is taking a life. That is all i meant.
What I'm trying to say is - what the friends and family members of jovan belcher say or do in response to what he did is in no way related to what you or your friends and family experienced. If they speak kindly about javon belcher or remember him in a different light- this is in no way related to the psychopath that you described in your own experiences. They aren't speaking about or for all killers. They are just remembering someone they knew.
warriorzpath is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 03:47 PM   #103
Pro Bowl
 
punch it in's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: toms river, nj
Age: 43
Posts: 5,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorzpath View Post
What I'm trying to say is - what the friends and family members of jovan belcher say or do in response to what he did is in no way related to what you or your friends and family experienced. If they speak kindly about javon belcher or remember him in a different light- this is in no way related to the psychopath that you described in your own experiences. They aren't speaking about or for all killers. They are just remembering someone they knew.
I clearly said that it must be hard for all of them to do that. I do not ever want to get a phone call that a friend or familymember of mine has done something like this. Also in no way am i insinuating that you just forget about how he was a good person at one point or throw away the memories you have of the good times. I can tell you that - and i believe i said this - that if it were my brother i would in no way be making a tribute to him - ala the shirt hanging in the locker. There is a big difference between a tribute and talking about the person you once knew as a good person before he committed such a terrible act. That is natural and understood. There would be no easy way to ever say " my brother is a murderer" or live with that fact. But i would have to do so.
Edit: you are rite - what i went through is different - we were the victims of a senseless act - i have much in common with the girlfriends friends and family. We both lost a beloved friend to a senseless act. If it were you i find it hard to believe you would be so understanding about the "renemberance and "honoring" of the person that took your friends life.
__________________
"Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate." Vince Lombardi
punch it in is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 03:47 PM   #104
MVP
 
DynamiteRave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Washington DC
Age: 27
Posts: 12,005
Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide

Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorzpath View Post
What I'm trying to say is - what the friends and family members of jovan belcher say or do in response to what he did is in no way related to what you or your friends and family experienced. If they speak kindly about javon belcher or remember him in a different light- this is in no way related to the psychopath that you described in your own experiences. They aren't speaking about or for all killers. They are just remembering someone they knew.
I agree.

Belcher is a killer in technical sense of the word, but like I said way earlier in this thread, rational people don't just go off and shoot people. Belcher obviously had issues of some sort.

Before he was a "killer" he was someone's son, a little girl's father, a teammate and a friend. There's nothing wrong with people remembering him as that and that only. Only WE know Belcher as a cold-blooded killer.

While his acts were detestable, because he took an innocent soul from this world, that doesn't mean he was a horrible man or father. From all accounts he was an otherwise decent (that doesn't mean he didn't F up) guy.

Sometimes otherwise normal people do horrible things. The only person who may have known what was wrong is dead and the only person who REALLY knew what was going on is also dead.

I hope everyone involved eventually finds peace from such a horrible incident.
__________________
Establishment, establishment, you always know what's best.

"We're officially horrible." -RedskinRat

I'm a chick, damnit.
DynamiteRave is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 03:55 PM   #105
Pro Bowl
 
punch it in's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: toms river, nj
Age: 43
Posts: 5,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by DynamiteRave View Post
I agree.

Belcher is a killer in technical sense of the word, but like I said way earlier in this thread, rational people don't just go off and shoot people. Belcher obviously had issues of some sort.

Before he was a "killer" he was someone's son, a little girl's father, a teammate and a friend. There's nothing wrong with people remembering him as that and that only. Only WE know Belcher as a cold-blooded killer.

While his acts were detestable, because he took an innocent soul from this world, that doesn't mean he was a horrible man or father. From all accounts he was an otherwise decent (that doesn't mean he didn't F up) guy.

Sometimes otherwise normal people do horrible things. The only person who may have known what was wrong is dead and the only person who REALLY knew what was going on is also dead.

I hope everyone involved eventually finds peace from such a horrible incident.
Actually Rave if you kill someone you are a horrible person. If you rape someone you are a horrible person. If you beat someone to s bloody pulp you are a horrible person. If those things dont make you horrible what does? Doesnt mean Belchers friends should not remember the "good " Belcher - but ill ask you the same thing i asked Warriorz- if someone killed your sister/best friend - would you be ok with that person being memorialized or honored?
__________________
"Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate." Vince Lombardi
punch it in is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.33442 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25