Ravens at Redskins Post Game Thread (RG3 MRI Result-Sprained Knee)

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

If the Redskins are middle of the pack in rushing YPA allowed, how would that equate to 'worst against the run' if teams decided to run more? I don't follow the math.

What he's saying is we suck at both on defense, and that since we suck a little more at pass defense teams just attack that so much and see no point in running the ball on us when they can just have a field day passing on us.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

And Charles Mann. Seriously, Neild was better than Baker and Jenkins, I'm waiting for Jenkins to start producing (he had a nice play for a loss yesterday).

Mann and Manley! Awesome. I had to listen to the game on sirius yesterday - of course it had to end like that - talk about suspense. But it sounded like early on Jenkins was not doing well and than came on late. I sure thought he was going to be a sweet pick after his rookie preseason Hes technically a rookie so ill give him till next year to start producing. The way i remember it with Nield is he was sort of trending down before he got injured. Am i off on that?

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

What he's saying is we suck at both on defense, and that since we suck a little more at pass defense teams just attack that so much and see no point in running the ball on us when they can just have a field day passing on us.

Yes but ypa is the real true measuring stick on run D. Teams dont run for alot of yards on us because they pass all day long. When they do run we are not getting gashed though. Unless you want to get into stuff like - well if they kept running the ball we would get worn down and the ypa would go up. Teams do abandon the run when they play us.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

You know I had actually forgot about him for awhile until Rave brought him up. You're right. Hell he had 2 sacks in his first game as a pro. He did seem to push the pocket alot when he was in there. It'll be good to have him back.

He's a true NT. I'm really hoping we hold onto him for next season.

[GoSkins!]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Mann and Manley! Awesome. I had to listen to the game on sirius yesterday - of course it had to end like that - talk about suspense. But it sounded like early on Jenkins was not doing well and than came on late. I sure thought he was going to be a sweet pick after his rookie preseason Hes technically a rookie so ill give him till next year to start producing. The way i remember it with Nield is he was sort of trending down before he got injured. Am i off on that?

With Jenkins injury he probably shouldn't be expected to be back to his old form till next year. It takes a year to recover, give or take. He is improving now which makes me think he just needed a little more time to regain his strength and quickness. Next year, look out. Unfortunately, Carriker and Neild may be in that boat next year.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

What he's saying is we suck at both on defense, and that since we suck a little more at pass defense teams just attack that so much and see no point in running the ball on us when they can just have a field day passing on us.

I know what his argument is, and it's still purely conjecture. Washington is seventh in rushing YPG allowed, and tied for 13th in YPA allowed. They are also tied for ninth in rushing TD's allowed. All of those numbers refute the idea that the Redskins would have the worst rush defense in the league if other teams would simply hand the ball off more often.

Yes, they were torched by and elite back in Ray Rice, but earlier in the season they held Adrian Peterson to less than 80 yards(the last team to hold him under 100) without a touchdown, and held him to his third lowest YPA for the season.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I miss Dexter Manley the most.

As far as DTs go, Dave Butz set the standard.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Yes but ypa is the real true measuring stick on run D. Teams dont run for alot of yards on us because they pass all day long. When they do run we are not getting gashed though. Unless you want to get into stuff like - well if they kept running the ball we would get worn down and the ypa would go up. Teams do abandon the run when they play us.

I think you can make the case either way. If a team were to start running, and we can pull our linebackers into the box, then I think we can shut down the run, but we are so afraid of deep passes/tight end screens that we aren't aggressive against the run. Without research, I would use the Tampa game as one I think would bear that out.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

I know what his argument is, and it's still purely conjecture. Washington is seventh in rushing YPG allowed, and tied for 13th in YPA allowed. They are also tied for ninth in rushing TD's allowed. All of those numbers refute the idea that the Redskins would have the worst rush defense in the league if other teams would simply hand the ball off more often.

Yes, they were torched by and elite back in Ray Rice, but earlier in the season they held Adrian Peterson to less than 80 yards(the last team to hold him under 100) without a touchdown, and held him to his third lowest YPA for the season.

Tied for 13th also means they are tied for 16th. Two ways to look at that stat.
Adrian Peterson only got the ball 17 times and rushed for 79 yards for an average of 4.6 yards a carry. They just did not give him the ball enough. Mainly because they were losing badly. We were up 24-9 by the middle of the third quarter. Teams are not likely to run the ball against you if they have to catch up from that deficit. I do believe that the defense has improved and they are creating turnovers. But one also has to realize that the reason our run defense looks good is because teams often have to play catch up. The saints and the cowboys both ran the ball around 10 times each. When teams stuck with the run, Like Carolina, Pitt, NYG they have had success. Baltimore was tearing us up, but Cam Cameron always does the same thing and that is put the game in Flacco's hands, and of course he got fired later for this. If we have to play a run oriented team in the playoffs (if we make it) like Seattle and they stick with the run I don't believe our defense can hold up.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

The one player on defense that I think is really missed is Chris Neild. Something about that guy they were able to put more pressure.

Chris Neild is a solid NT. But with Chris Baker, I don't think Neild is missed all of that much.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I think you can make the case either way. If a team were to start running, and we can pull our linebackers into the box, then I think we can shut down the run, but we are so afraid of deep passes/tight end screens that we aren't aggressive against the run. Without research, I would use the Tampa game as one I think would bear that out.

Good point. Either way we need some dang dbacks. Lol

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Tied for 13th also means they are tied for 16th. Two ways to look at that stat.
Adrian Peterson only got the ball 17 times and rushed for 79 yards for an average of 4.6 yards a carry. They just did not give him the ball enough.

For comparison, Peterson got the ball 17 times against Seattle and went for 182 yard at 10.7 per carry. He got the ball 18 times against Chicago and went for 108 yards at 6.0 per carry.

Of the three teams you mentioned that stuck with the run; the Steelers and Panthers got up on the Redskins early, and the Giants gameplan was to keep Griffin on the sideline, so obviously those teams ran more often. You're kind of cherry picking to make your point, and ignoring the bigger picture. If it was a simple matter of more rushing attempts, couldn't the same logic be applied to RG3, who leads the league in passing YPA? If he'd just drop back and pass 900 times, he'd have close to 6000 yards. Right?

[SkinsGuru]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Truely dominant 3-4 nose tackles aren't exactly easy to find. There's barely a handful currently active in the league, and I would not advocate breaking the bank to bring any of them here.

I'd put Cofield on average to slightly above average. With all of the actual liabilities on this defense, he's probably one of the most likely players to keep his spot going into next season.

true . . . but to find them you have to try . . . look at how dominant Vince Wilfork was last night . . . he was just a beast and ate up 2 - 3 blockers and still batted down passers, made tackles and pressured the QB . . . Thats what we NEED . . . thats what a 3-4 defense NEEDS to be good

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SkinsGuru

true . . . but to find them you have to try . . . look at how dominant Vince Wilfork was last night . . . he was just a beast and ate up 2 - 3 blockers and still batted down passers, made tackles and pressured the QB . . . Thats what we NEED . . . thats what a 3-4 defense NEEDS to be good

Cofield is a really good player and our front 3 d-linemen have done a good job against the run before the Ravens game. I think where he lacks as a NT is being able to take up two blockers and collapse the pocket. I hope Baker can develop into that space eating NT.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

For comparison, Peterson got the ball 17 times against Seattle and went for 182 yard at 10.7 per carry. He got the 18 times against Chicago and went for 108 yards at 6.0 per carry.

Of the three teams you mentioned that stuck with the run; the Steelers and Panthers got up on the Redskins early, and the Giants gameplan was to keep Griffin on the sideline, so obviously those teams ran more often. You're kind of cherry picking to make your point, and ignoring the bigger picture. If it was a simple matter of more rushing attempts, couldn't the same logic be applied to RG3, who leads the league in passing YPA? If he'd just drop back and pass 900 times, he'd have close to 6000 yards. Right?

If you want to look at AP look at the games before he played us,
JAX - 17 84 yards (31st run defense)
IND - 16 60 yards (19th run defense)
Tenn 17 88 yards (24th run defense)
DET - 21 109 yards (20th run defense)
WAS - 17 79 yards (7th run defense)

Obviously Peterson picked up his game recently but the beginning of the season he was not running as well as he is now. You made my point, when teams want to run the ball on us and its part of their game plan and they stick to it our run defense has proven not to be that good. I am not saying its the worst run defense in the league but its not a top 10 run defense. What I am saying is the main reason our run defense is a top 10 run defense according to yards is because teams do not try to run the ball on us, they pass the ball because we are so bad against the pass, that does not mean we are good against the run either though.