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Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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View Poll Results: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
Yes 91 95.79%
No 4 4.21%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-19-2012, 11:20 PM   #151
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I hate John Beck the QB, think he's beyond awful. And manipulated everyone with his "I'm rounding up the players for lockout practices"

But...we make too big a deal out of his year here. We traded Doug Dutch...DOUG DUTCH!!!...for him. That's a mistake? But somehow, not drafting Blaine Gabbert high or Ponder or even Locker (who I would have taken) is overlooked.

Anyhow, carry on
so despite all the bad decisions Shanahan has made, and he has made some bad ones, we should give him credit for not making other bad decisions?

Nobody is perfect and expecting a Redskins head coach to be perfect is a fool's errand -- RG3 is fantastic (pulling the trigger on him took some real cajones),the tweaked offense is quite impressive and being in control of the NFC East division race with two weeks left has decimated my work productivity .

That being said -- if we take a slight step backwards, we see the McNabb, Beck, Grossman fiasco among others as well as an overall record of 19-27.
So my honest answer is no, I haven't bought in but I'm close. Winning the East and 1 playoff win would go a long way.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:34 PM   #152
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

Not at all the point I'm making
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:35 PM   #153
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

If those moves had worked out we wouldn't be here now with RG III and cousins. BTW no coach is perfect at evaluating talent or there wouldn't be a 50% fail rate with 1st round picks.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:44 PM   #154
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

So what is your point? If you note, I framed it as a question
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:25 AM   #155
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

I mean John Beck was a minor, irrelevant move. If anything, just getting Beck rather than a full commitment to Gabbert (as an example) was the better move
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:46 AM   #156
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

I disagree that it was a minor move -- I mean we went into last season with him as the starter
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:58 AM   #157
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

we went into last season with Rex as the starter

Regardless, still think it was small potatoes on the grand scale
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:28 AM   #158
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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we went into last season with Rex as the starter

Regardless, still think it was small potatoes on the grand scale
In the grand scheme of things: The NFL was in a lockout. They didn't see a guy they liked enough to waste resources. Decided to wait, and damned if it hasn't been the best damn thing to happen to this franchise in a long fn time.
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:53 AM   #159
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

^^^ Ding ding ding ... we have a winner.

They took a stab at the QB position with McNabb - it didn't work out. Was it a bad move? In hindsight, absolutely. At the time, I wasn't against it.

Beck and Grossman were the non-moves of the decade. If not for them, we have Gabbert.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:09 AM   #160
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

Well in that case I have a newfound respect for Shanahan's/Allen's prescience -- I also didn't realize it was okay to throw away a season to wait for a new QB. They should have told the people who bought tickets for the games
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:43 AM   #161
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

So going back to 2011, who would you have brought in to play QB?
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:44 AM   #162
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I hate John Beck the QB, think he's beyond awful. And manipulated everyone with his "I'm rounding up the players for lockout practices"

But...we make too big a deal out of his year here. We traded Doug Dutch...DOUG DUTCH!!!...for him. That's a mistake? But somehow, not drafting Blaine Gabbert high or Ponder or even Locker (who I would have taken) is overlooked.

Anyhow, carry on
It's not the trade. It's Mike Shanahan saying "he'd put his reputation" on John Beck being a good QB. He actualy tried to sell that nonsense to the fans. WTF was he looking at that made him think Beck could play? But that's all in the past. Hopefully we're headed in the right direction, but I can't say I'm 100% on board simply because of a 5 game win steak.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:45 AM   #163
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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Well in that case I have a newfound respect for Shanahan's/Allen's prescience -- I also didn't realize it was okay to throw away a season to wait for a new QB. They should have told the people who bought tickets for the games
See, here is part of the problem. Its the same problem I have with GTripp. You both seem to to think that building a team in the NFL is a one year proposition. Where you say throw away a season, I say didnt get locked into a bad QB and waste 4 or 5 seasons. I have tried to make the case that passing on Gabbert was a good thing, and the responses I get are more about me having an attitude because I believe that the only way to build a team is "my way".

But the whole "All it takes is one year" is a clear sign that no team building is needed by the people who say it. And that is flat out wrong. If that was right, then Vinny Cerrato is the greatest GM to ever grace the planet. He made the most 1 year moves I have ever seen.

Finding the RIGHT QB is the most important piece to any NFL team. He found it... yet all you say (and others like you) is that a season was wasted.
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:03 AM   #164
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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See, here is part of the problem. Its the same problem I have with GTripp. You both seem to to think that building a team in the NFL is a one year proposition. Where you say throw away a season, I say didnt get locked into a bad QB and waste 4 or 5 seasons. I have tried to make the case that passing on Gabbert was a good thing, and the responses I get are more about me having an attitude because I believe that the only way to build a team is "my way".

But the whole "All it takes is one year" is a clear sign that no team building is needed by the people who say it. And that is flat out wrong. If that was right, then Vinny Cerrato is the greatest GM to ever grace the planet. He made the most 1 year moves I have ever seen.

Finding the RIGHT QB is the most important piece to any NFL team. He found it... yet all you say (and others like you) is that a season was wasted.
I agree. If we had drafted Gabbert, Ponder, or traded up for Locker our franchise probably would have been handicapped for another 3-4 years, similar to Jason Campbell or Ramsey picks for the skins, because that is what happens when you reach for quarterbacks (the Jets are a perfect example). One offseason/draft will not and would not have fixed the Redskins, we are still a couple of more moves from being true contenders for the superbowl, nice seeing the pieces being built though. It is a lot easier when you have the right quarterback though.
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:04 AM   #165
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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Well in that case I have a newfound respect for Shanahan's/Allen's prescience -- I also didn't realize it was okay to throw away a season to wait for a new QB. They should have told the people who bought tickets for the games
1) it's not prescience to be evaluating 1-2 years ahead of what positions might be better to draft this year, and what might be better next year. The same could be said this year, when the draft is supposed to be deeper then the past few in defensive backs, and that happens to be a position of need.

2) evaluating talent often is a negative result more than it is a positive, meaning: do we want to pay price x(10th overall pick, or 8.5 Million existing contract, or FA asking 30mill over 2 years) for this player's talent level. If the answer is no then you roll with what you have and try to scheme around it.

Putting these two points together, you can see one(or more) rational explanation that doesn't rely on MS psychic abilities.

During evaluation phases, MS,KS, BA and scouts looked at all the pro and college qbs available in the off-season leading up to last season. They looked at a known quantity of Rex (ie with Rex will get us between 6 and 10 wins), along with a potential qb in Beck. Hindsight really does show us that the assessment of most of last years draft class was correct, and that they would not have presented long or short term gains over that, while this year, even had we won the top out number there would have been several candidates with better upside.

I don't think any of this logic is more or less than what a fan would reasonably expect of a solid FO trying to present both the best possible short term, and the highest upside long term.
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