Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

Skinzman · 12-20-2012, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

Well in that case I have a newfound respect for Shanahan's/Allen's prescience -- I also didn't realize it was okay to throw away a season to wait for a new QB. They should have told the people who bought tickets for the games

See, here is part of the problem. Its the same problem I have with GTripp. You both seem to to think that building a team in the NFL is a one year proposition. Where you say throw away a season, I say didnt get locked into a bad QB and waste 4 or 5 seasons. I have tried to make the case that passing on Gabbert was a good thing, and the responses I get are more about me having an attitude because I believe that the only way to build a team is "my way".

But the whole "All it takes is one year" is a clear sign that no team building is needed by the people who say it. And that is flat out wrong. If that was right, then Vinny Cerrato is the greatest GM to ever grace the planet. He made the most 1 year moves I have ever seen.

Finding the RIGHT QB is the most important piece to any NFL team. He found it... yet all you say (and others like you) is that a season was wasted.

donofriose · 12-20-2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinzman

See, here is part of the problem. Its the same problem I have with GTripp. You both seem to to think that building a team in the NFL is a one year proposition. Where you say throw away a season, I say didnt get locked into a bad QB and waste 4 or 5 seasons. I have tried to make the case that passing on Gabbert was a good thing, and the responses I get are more about me having an attitude because I believe that the only way to build a team is "my way".

But the whole "All it takes is one year" is a clear sign that no team building is needed by the people who say it. And that is flat out wrong. If that was right, then Vinny Cerrato is the greatest GM to ever grace the planet. He made the most 1 year moves I have ever seen.

Finding the RIGHT QB is the most important piece to any NFL team. He found it... yet all you say (and others like you) is that a season was wasted.

I agree. If we had drafted Gabbert, Ponder, or traded up for Locker our franchise probably would have been handicapped for another 3-4 years, similar to Jason Campbell or Ramsey picks for the skins, because that is what happens when you reach for quarterbacks (the Jets are a perfect example). One offseason/draft will not and would not have fixed the Redskins, we are still a couple of more moves from being true contenders for the superbowl, nice seeing the pieces being built though. It is a lot easier when you have the right quarterback though.

CRedskinsRule · 12-20-2012, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

Well in that case I have a newfound respect for Shanahan's/Allen's prescience -- I also didn't realize it was okay to throw away a season to wait for a new QB. They should have told the people who bought tickets for the games

1) it's not prescience to be evaluating 1-2 years ahead of what positions might be better to draft this year, and what might be better next year. The same could be said this year, when the draft is supposed to be deeper then the past few in defensive backs, and that happens to be a position of need.

2) evaluating talent often is a negative result more than it is a positive, meaning: do we want to pay price x(10th overall pick, or 8.5 Million existing contract, or FA asking 30mill over 2 years) for this player's talent level. If the answer is no then you roll with what you have and try to scheme around it.

Putting these two points together, you can see one(or more) rational explanation that doesn't rely on MS psychic abilities.

During evaluation phases, MS,KS, BA and scouts looked at all the pro and college qbs available in the off-season leading up to last season. They looked at a known quantity of Rex (ie with Rex will get us between 6 and 10 wins), along with a potential qb in Beck. Hindsight really does show us that the assessment of most of last years draft class was correct, and that they would not have presented long or short term gains over that, while this year, even had we won the top out number there would have been several candidates with better upside.

I don't think any of this logic is more or less than what a fan would reasonably expect of a solid FO trying to present both the best possible short term, and the highest upside long term.

Paintrain · 12-20-2012, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donofriose

I agree. If we had drafted Gabbert, Ponder, or traded up for Locker our franchise probably would have been handicapped for another 3-4 years, similar to Jason Campbell or Ramsey picks for the skins, because that is what happens when you reach for quarterbacks (the Jets are a perfect example). One offseason/draft will not and would not have fixed the Redskins, we are still a couple of more moves from being true contenders for the superbowl, nice seeing the pieces being built though. It is a lot easier when you have the right quarterback though.

Exactly, hindsight is a beautiful thing.. I guran-damn-tee it that those same people focused on Rex/Beck would be bitching up a storm if Gabbert/Ponder/Locker was our QB and struggling while our pass rush from the LB position was negligible. Now they would be saying 'We should have drafted JJ Watt or Ryan Kerrigan and waited on a QB! Look at what the rookie QB are doing!'
Plus even if we had drafted Gabbert/Ponder/Locker, we probably would have started Rex/Beck anyways. Even without RG3, there's not a realistic alternative that was available at the QB position in 2010 or 2011 that would have gotten us at the cusp of an NFC East title at this point.

Some folks are just pre-disposed to complain and focus on the negative.

Mattyk · 12-20-2012, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

It's not the trade. It's Mike Shanahan saying "he'd put his reputation" on John Beck being a good QB. He actualy tried to sell that nonsense to the fans. WTF was he looking at that made him think Beck could play? But that's all in the past. Hopefully we're headed in the right direction, but I can't say I'm 100% on board simply because of a 5 game win steak.

What else was he gonna say?

Hey everyone we all know Rex and Beck blow, but they're all we got this year?

It was just coach speak. Nothing more.

SkinzWin · 12-20-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

What else was he gonna say?

Hey everyone we all know Rex and Beck blow, but they're all we got this year?

It was just coach speak. Nothing more.

Preach. Fans take stuff too literally. Maybe he should have said, "All our QB's blow, so we are going to go into this season to evaluate whose going to be here going forward and preparing for next season".

punch it in · 12-20-2012, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

Preach. Fans take stuff too literally. Maybe he should have said, "All our QB's blow, so we are going to go into this season to evaluate whose going to be here going forward and preparing for next season".

Ooohh. Wish he had - we would have rattled off five in a row.

Chico23231 · 12-20-2012, 10:15 AM

I want to ask the hatters, what were your expectations this season? And what were your expectations when Shanny and Bruce took over?

I think that would help me understand alot of things.

Dont talk about McNabb, Brown, and the defense...we know the regime's mistakes, No team is perfect. Sure, we know RT and the secondary is an issue and we should have resigned Carlos, we know these things. But what were your expectations?

punch it in · 12-20-2012, 10:29 AM

Im not sure if you are referring to me, but i was def on the hater side during the early part of the season. I was stoked when they took over. I didnt blame shanny for mcnabb. I thought he had something left in the tank. He had a great year prior. When beck n rex took over i wasnt upset about not drafting a qb. We had a ton of holes. Wasnt till this yr when i realized how good rg3 was that i started questioning the losses. My expectations for this yr were if rex can win 6 Griff can win 10. Looks like i was correct. I always gave Shanny credit for denver - elway was a shell of himself n those sp wins were all shanny. I defended his presser after the panthers game too. Thought it was taken out of context. My expectations for thus season n years to come are the sky is the limit.
So again - i questioned 3-6 start. Still do. But its over and we seemed to have turned a corner. Whats done is done. Im on board. Ask okie after the first giants game / loss - i said we r going to make the playoffs. I saw a team effort in that game.

Chico23231 · 12-20-2012, 10:53 AM

You thought we were a 10 win team? wow. I thought at 9 wins we would be exceeding expectations.

SkinsGuru · 12-20-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

What else was he gonna say?

Hey everyone we all know Rex and Beck blow, but they're all we got this year?

It was just coach speak. Nothing more.

Thank you!!! . . . i am sick of people talking about shanny staking his reputation on Rex and Beck . . . he was standing up for what he has . . . as any coach would . . . that's it . . .

SkinzWin · 12-20-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico23231

You thought we were a 10 win team? wow. I thought at 9 wins we would be exceeding expectations.

And just think where we might have been if we hadn't had injuries and been the most penalized team in the league. Think about that. It blows my mind. We are the most penalized team in the league and are making a push for a 10 win season and a division championship. That needs to be a big off season coaching point, have to clean that sloppiness up!

punch it in · 12-20-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico23231

You thought we were a 10 win team? wow. I thought at 9 wins we would be exceeding expectations.

Because we had a rookie qb rite? I was a huge fan of rg-3's in college, and liked him alot coming out of college. Once we had sealed the deal with him i seriously thought that even as a rookie he was an immense improvement over rexy or beck. So yeah ten wins seemed possible to me. I also thought our schedule was easier than last years. I was so terribly dissapointed with the slow start that i started to really question what Shanny was doing. Maybe i was over confident but based on the marked improvement at the qb spot which seemed to be the one thing holding us back in so many close losses last yr i didnt know how else to explain the losses.

artmonkforhallofamein07 · 12-20-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

^^^ Ding ding ding ... we have a winner.

They took a stab at the QB position with McNabb - it didn't work out. Was it a bad move? In hindsight, absolutely. At the time, I wasn't against it.

Beck and Grossman were the non-moves of the decade. If not for them, we have Gabbert.

I was kinda excited when we brought in Mcnabb. Thought we may get a few years out of him and he would be successful. But oh we'll it didn't work and now we get to build around our own young rookie stud and a competent back up. Done, from an elated and happy fan

CrazyCanuck · 12-20-2012, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I hate John Beck the QB, think he's beyond awful. And manipulated everyone with his "I'm rounding up the players for lockout practices"

But...we make too big a deal out of his year here. We traded Doug Dutch...DOUG DUTCH!!!...for him. That's a mistake? But somehow, not drafting Blaine Gabbert high or Ponder or even Locker (who I would have taken) is overlooked.

Of course it's overlooked. Not to mention Kolb, Flynn, Sanchez, Palmer...

Don't you know how to play the "grass is greener" game at the Warpath??

First, the grass is ALWAYS greener. Second, NEVER suggest a better alternative.

This way you can complain all you want and never eat crow. It's fun.

View Poll Results: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
Yes	91	95.79%
No	4	4.21%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

12-20-2012, 10:15 AM	#173
Chico23231 Franchise Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 36 Posts: 7,908	Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan? I want to ask the hatters, what were your expectations this season? And what were your expectations when Shanny and Bruce took over? I think that would help me understand alot of things. Dont talk about McNabb, Brown, and the defense...we know the regime's mistakes, No team is perfect. Sure, we know RT and the secondary is an issue and we should have resigned Carlos, we know these things. But what were your expectations? __________________ RG3 = Best QB in the East

12-20-2012, 10:29 AM	#174
punch it in Playmaker Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: toms river, nj Age: 41 Posts: 3,369	Im not sure if you are referring to me, but i was def on the hater side during the early part of the season. I was stoked when they took over. I didnt blame shanny for mcnabb. I thought he had something left in the tank. He had a great year prior. When beck n rex took over i wasnt upset about not drafting a qb. We had a ton of holes. Wasnt till this yr when i realized how good rg3 was that i started questioning the losses. My expectations for this yr were if rex can win 6 Griff can win 10. Looks like i was correct. I always gave Shanny credit for denver - elway was a shell of himself n those sp wins were all shanny. I defended his presser after the panthers game too. Thought it was taken out of context. My expectations for thus season n years to come are the sky is the limit. So again - i questioned 3-6 start. Still do. But its over and we seemed to have turned a corner. Whats done is done. Im on board. Ask okie after the first giants game / loss - i said we r going to make the playoffs. I saw a team effort in that game. __________________ "Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate." Vince Lombardi

12-20-2012, 10:53 AM	#175
Chico23231 Franchise Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 36 Posts: 7,908	Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan? You thought we were a 10 win team? wow. I thought at 9 wins we would be exceeding expectations. __________________ RG3 = Best QB in the East

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Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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