Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

The Goat · 12-20-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I want to ask the hatters, what were your expectations this season? And what were your expectations when Shanny and Bruce took over?

I think that would help me understand alot of things.

Dont talk about McNabb, Brown, and the defense...we know the regime's mistakes, No team is perfect. Sure, we know RT and the secondary is an issue and we should have resigned Carlos, we know these things. But what were your expectations?

I said (prior to reg season) 8-8 was minimum expectation, and that was before we knew RG was this phenomenal.

I'd answer your other question but defense is a big part of the answer, so nevermind hoss.

CrustyRedskin · 12-20-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck

Of course it's overlooked. Not to mention Kolb, Flynn, Sanchez, Palmer...

Don't you know how to play the "grass is greener" game at the Warpath??

First, the grass is ALWAYS greener. Second, NEVER suggest a better alternative.

This way you can complain all you want and never eat crow. It's fun.

REDSKINS4ever · 12-20-2012, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Goat

I said (prior to reg season) 8-8 was minimum expectation, and that was before we knew RG was this phenomenal.

I'd answer your other question but defense is a big part of the answer, so nevermind hoss.

After the first game against the Saints, you could tell that this team had the potential to do something special this season. But the defense, particularly the secondary, gave away leads and games that the explosive offense had produced and held the team back. But since the bye week the Redskins have been very professional and have buckled down quite a bit and have played some excellent football on both sides of the ball that has contributed to the turnaround.

Chico23231 · 12-20-2012, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Goat

I said (prior to reg season) 8-8 was minimum expectation, and that was before we knew RG was this phenomenal.

I'd answer your other question but defense is a big part of the answer, so nevermind hoss.

so 8-8 now to undefeated?

Lotta injuries on that defense right?

Ruhskins · 12-20-2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I want to ask the hatters, what were your expectations this season? And what were your expectations when Shanny and Bruce took over?

I think that would help me understand alot of things.

Dont talk about McNabb, Brown, and the defense...we know the regime's mistakes, No team is perfect. Sure, we know RT and the secondary is an issue and we should have resigned Carlos, we know these things. But what were your expectations?

I usually don't say these things, but whoever is a hater at this point is a f'ing moron and should just stop being a fan of this team. I am not saying that everyone has to drink the Kool Aid, but this has been the best situation this team has been in a LONG time. And this is coming from someone who can be very pessimistic during gamedays.

This front office has made their share of mistakes in the past and they are not without their flaws. The team still has a number of needs, which many hope are addressed in the offseason. And the there will always be questionable moves here and there, because no team is perfect. Look at recent SB winners such as the Giants and Packers, both teams had ups and downs during their runs, yet they won the big one.

As a fan of this team, I love the fact that we are playing relevant games in December with realistic playoff expectations. I love the fact that we are relevant in the NFL period and right now may be a team that no one wants to see in the playoffs. We have an all-pro QB, a stud RB, a game changing receiver, and an offense that is constantly putting up yards and points. And God willing, we may end up being the NFC East Champ.

If ANY fan doesn't appreciate all of this and feels that they must b*tch at every moment about this team, then they are either a moron, an SOB that likes to be miserable all the time, or an a-hole that likes to F with people.

punch it in · 12-20-2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I usually don't say these things, but whoever is a hater at this point is a f'ing moron and should just stop being a fan of this team. I am not saying that everyone has to drink the Kool Aid, but this has been the best situation this team has been in a LONG time. And this is coming from someone who can be very pessimistic during gamedays.

This front office has made their share of mistakes in the past and they are not without their flaws. The team still has a number of needs, which many hope are addressed in the offseason. And the there will always be questionable moves here and there, because no team is perfect. Look at recent SB winners such as the Giants and Packers, both teams had ups and downs during their runs, yet they won the big one.

As a fan of this team, I love the fact that we are playing relevant games in December with realistic playoff expectations. I love the fact that we are relevant in the NFL period and right now may be a team that no one wants to see in the playoffs. We have an all-pro QB, a stud RB, a game changing receiver, and an offense that is constantly putting up yards and points. And God willing, we may end up being the NFC East Champ.

If ANY fan doesn't appreciate all of this and feels that they must b*tch at every moment about this team, then they are either a moron, an SOB that likes to be miserable all the time, or an a-hole that likes to F with people.

Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel.

The Goat · 12-20-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico23231

so 8-8 now to undefeated?

Lotta injuries on that defense right?

My 8-8 (minimum) expectation included injuries with the exception of Fletcher and RG, cause they're just part of football.

I think the players missing on defense is two stories. Carriker and Orakpo went down and that's just part of the game. Big losses no doubt, although Rob Jackson is looking better every week now and Jenkins shows some flashes too. The safety situation isn't a regular part of football IMO, and the FO (so I guess mostly Shanny and somewhat BA) take the blame. We went into the season with a dope head, who's suspension was inevitable, right? And then a guy who was great a few years ago but has been plagued by injury and really not contributed anyway in a a couple years. That's just bad personnel decisions.

Unless Jackson, Merriweather, Doughty and Williams were the best safeties available...? I honestly don't know, but it seems hard to believe.

The Goat · 12-20-2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I usually don't say these things, but whoever is a hater at this point is a f'ing moron and should just stop being a fan of this team. I am not saying that everyone has to drink the Kool Aid, but this has been the best situation this team has been in a LONG time. And this is coming from someone who can be very pessimistic during gamedays.

If ANY fan doesn't appreciate all of this and feels that they must b*tch at every moment about this team, then they are either a moron, an SOB that likes to be miserable all the time, or an a-hole that likes to F with people.

Pessimism on gameday is just wrong, especially when you have the rest of the week to be an a-hole

rbanerjee23 · 12-20-2012, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinzman

See, here is part of the problem. Its the same problem I have with GTripp. You both seem to to think that building a team in the NFL is a one year proposition. Where you say throw away a season, I say didnt get locked into a bad QB and waste 4 or 5 seasons. I have tried to make the case that passing on Gabbert was a good thing, and the responses I get are more about me having an attitude because I believe that the only way to build a team is "my way".

But the whole "All it takes is one year" is a clear sign that no team building is needed by the people who say it. And that is flat out wrong. If that was right, then Vinny Cerrato is the greatest GM to ever grace the planet. He made the most 1 year moves I have ever seen.

Finding the RIGHT QB is the most important piece to any NFL team. He found it... yet all you say (and others like you) is that a season was wasted.

No, I agree that wasting 1 year is better than wasting 4-5 -- I just wish I would have known that they didn't expect anything out of the season so that I as a fan would have know that 2011 didn't really count.

Ruhskins · 12-20-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punch it in

Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel.

Long week at work. Nice way to vent. :FIREdevil

I just also want to gush on how nice it is to be a Redskins fan right now. I even have a Cowpuke fan in my office who is saying positive things about our team.

rbanerjee23 · 12-20-2012, 05:06 PM

I'm curious -- when did it become my job as a fan to suggest alternatives? My job is to cheer the victories, boo the losses and then pontificate about the respective greatness/worthlessness of the team. Saying that you don't buy into the Shanaplan isn't hating. If it is, then why was the question asked in the first place? Do you just want a bunch of yes men on this forum or people who challenge the common mentality with admittedly imperfect arguments.

Building something with as many moving pieces as a football team in an environment as volatile as the NFL is absolutely a multi-year endeavor. But I'm allowed to be upset about the, somewhat, wasted year right? If not, let me know and I'll never say anything negative again.

Ruhskins · 12-20-2012, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

I'm curious -- when did it become my job as a fan to suggest alternatives? My job is to cheer the victories, boo the losses and then pontificate about the respective greatness/worthlessness of the team. Saying that you don't buy into the Shanaplan isn't hating. If it is, then why was the question asked in the first place? Do you just want a bunch of yes men on this forum or people who challenge the common mentality with admittedly imperfect arguments.

Building something with as many moving pieces as a football team in an environment as volatile as the NFL is absolutely a multi-year endeavor. But I'm allowed to be upset about the, somewhat, wasted year right? If not, let me know and I'll never say anything negative again.

Some people want perfection in a team and do not seem to be happy no matter what happens. I will be the first one to criticize the team about a lot of things. You mentioned wasted years, and I believe 2010 (McNabb) and 2011 (Rex/Beck) were wasted year. I feel that Shanahan could have handled the Haynesworth debacle much better. In looking at more recent issues, the defense is still a conundrum, they've had 10 takeaways and 11 sacks over the 5-game winning streak, yet they've given up about 350 yards per game. The FO took a big gamble on safeties, and they got that part completely wrong.

As you said, this doesn't have to be a group of yes men, agreeing with everything and drinking the Kool Aid. But some people seemed to be content with the complaints and make irrational arguments to make their point.

rbanerjee23 · 12-20-2012, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Some people want perfection in a team and do not seem to be happy no matter what happens. I will be the first one to criticize the team about a lot of things. You mentioned wasted years, and I believe 2010 (McNabb) and 2011 (Rex/Beck) were wasted year. I feel that Shanahan could have handled the Haynesworth debacle much better. In looking at more recent issues, the defense is still a conundrum, they've had 10 takeaways and 11 sacks over the 5-game winning streak, yet they've given up about 350 yards per game. The FO took a big gamble on safeties, and they got that part completely wrong.

As you said, this doesn't have to be a group of yes men, agreeing with everything and drinking the Kool Aid. But some people seemed to be content with the complaints and make irrational arguments to make their point.

Exactly -- I also despise people who only want to complain and make irrational arguments as I feel that some of the attacks have been by people who only drink koolaid while denigrating rational arguments. The 5 game streak has been ridiculous -- we've beaten two division winners (Giants at the time, Ravens), the f***ing cowpukes in Jerrah's world, and a very tough defense in Cleveland (they had given up 3 offensive TDs in the past four games and we put up 5 led by Kirk making his first start). I am super positive but I personally can't just forget the tough preceding years when it really seemed as though there was no Shanaplan.

Skinzman · 12-20-2012, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

I'm curious -- when did it become my job as a fan to suggest alternatives? My job is to cheer the victories, boo the losses and then pontificate about the respective greatness/worthlessness of the team. Saying that you don't buy into the Shanaplan isn't hating. If it is, then why was the question asked in the first place? Do you just want a bunch of yes men on this forum or people who challenge the common mentality with admittedly imperfect arguments.

Building something with as many moving pieces as a football team in an environment as volatile as the NFL is absolutely a multi-year endeavor. But I'm allowed to be upset about the, somewhat, wasted year right? If not, let me know and I'll never say anything negative again.

I dont recall saying you were hating. You are more than welcome to quote me saying that. Until then, dont put words in my mouth. You have every right to your opinions, I have every right to disagree with you. Spare me the dramatics about never being negative again.

The fact is, the last two years is the first time that this team has tried to build a long term contender since Beathard and Gibbs. Gibbs II was about building a team to win now and putting cap affects into later years. That was never sustainable long term.

But lets be honest here, when looking at some of the most important pieces of a team. We are starting to get not only young, but good as well. The fact that we have a year 3 LT who is looking really good, a rookie QB and RB, Younger WR's outside of Moss. Those are good building blocks that will be around a long time. Does the OL need more improvements? Absolutely, but for the first time, some important components of our offense are not only young, but also good.

Complain about year 1 all you want, I do. I have always said McNabb was a mistake and that even though he talked about a long term plan of youth, he abandoned that plan in year 1 to try and win now. Year 2, what QB? As much as people complain about Rex/Beck, who else was he getting. The main ones available were Gabbert, Dalton, or Kapernick in the draft, or to sign Hasselbeck as a FA. OK so how much are we winning with any of them? Dalton/Kaepernick would easily have been best, but do we go to the playoffs last year with either? No we dont. Dalton would have gotten pummeled behind our Oline. Kaepernick needed to sit last year to help develop. Do we get RG3 if we draft either of those 3? No we dont. I personally believe that RG3 is head and shoulders above all of those, and even with the extra draft picks, going after him is worth it.

We have been bad for almost 20 years. Signs that the future will be better are important. And I saw those last year. Yeah, the record sucked, but we actually have started adding younger pieces. And the future looks good. I didnt buy into Shanny's plan at all in year 1. Because he preached youth and went for win now with a crap roster. But year 2 and 3 have been about building a team. Year 3 we are seeing those signs pretty clearly. To change now is a huge mistake.

punch it in · 12-20-2012, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinzman

I dont recall saying you were hating. You are more than welcome to quote me saying that. Until then, dont put words in my mouth. You have every right to your opinions, I have every right to disagree with you. Spare me the dramatics about never being negative again.

The fact is, the last two years is the first time that this team has tried to build a long term contender since Beathard and Gibbs. Gibbs II was about building a team to win now and putting cap affects into later years. That was never sustainable long term.

But lets be honest here, when looking at some of the most important pieces of a team. We are starting to get not only young, but good as well. The fact that we have a year 3 LT who is looking really good, a rookie QB and RB, Younger WR's outside of Moss. Those are good building blocks that will be around a long time. Does the OL need more improvements? Absolutely, but for the first time, some important components of our offense are not only young, but also good.

Complain about year 1 all you want, I do. I have always said McNabb was a mistake and that even though he talked about a long term plan of youth, he abandoned that plan in year 1 to try and win now. Year 2, what QB? As much as people complain about Rex/Beck, who else was he getting. The main ones available were Gabbert, Dalton, or Kapernick in the draft, or to sign Hasselbeck as a FA. OK so how much are we winning with any of them? Dalton/Kaepernick would easily have been best, but do we go to the playoffs last year with either? No we dont. Dalton would have gotten pummeled behind our Oline. Kaepernick needed to sit last year to help develop. Do we get RG3 if we draft either of those 3? No we dont. I personally believe that RG3 is head and shoulders above all of those, and even with the extra draft picks, going after him is worth it.

We have been bad for almost 20 years. Signs that the future will be better are important. And I saw those last year. Yeah, the record sucked, but we actually have started adding younger pieces. And the future looks good. I didnt buy into Shanny's plan at all in year 1. Because he preached youth and went for win now with a crap roster. But year 2 and 3 have been about building a team. Year 3 we are seeing those signs pretty clearly. To change now is a huge mistake.

He didnt quote anybody when he said that. You are looking at another one of his posts.
edit: he quoted you in post 190 and practically agreed with you in his response. You quoted him in post 192 which I believe wasnt adressed to anyone in particular.

View Poll Results: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
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12-20-2012, 05:06 PM	#191
rbanerjee23 The Starter Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,320	Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan? I'm curious -- when did it become my job as a fan to suggest alternatives? My job is to cheer the victories, boo the losses and then pontificate about the respective greatness/worthlessness of the team. Saying that you don't buy into the Shanaplan isn't hating. If it is, then why was the question asked in the first place? Do you just want a bunch of yes men on this forum or people who challenge the common mentality with admittedly imperfect arguments. Building something with as many moving pieces as a football team in an environment as volatile as the NFL is absolutely a multi-year endeavor. But I'm allowed to be upset about the, somewhat, wasted year right? If not, let me know and I'll never say anything negative again. __________________ "Tough times don't last but tough people do" -Mike Shanahan HTTR

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Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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