Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

GTripp0012

It's funny because I've been told countless times around these parts that it takes multiple years to reshape a roster, and then when the Redskins go and totally take their team in a different direction during their bye week, everybody (including those preaching patience above all) immediately buy in hook, line, and sinker.

Multiple years or two weeks. All the same I guess.

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Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

Chico23231

^well you know they are gonna have another hard time again with the cap penalty and will have their hands tied in Free agency with alot of decisions to make on the team in regards to who to extend vs who not to extend. Whats is encouraging is the fact of there is only ONE bloated contract at this point. Thats an amazing fact vs the 2005-2007 teams you mentioned. This team is much more structurely sound than those teams as well in terms of talent, but especially depth.

Its gonna be an interesting offseason when it comes down to players such as Logan Pauleson, Rob Jackson, Fred Davis, D Hall

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Ready for the Draft.

GTripp0012

Yeah, the contracts thing is something that improved right away.

This is the offseason that will determine the success or failure of the Shanaplan (of course, if not for last offseason, he wouldn't have made it to this point). Lots of talent on this roster is available for free agency, and that doesn't even include Orakpo, who is heading into the last year of his contract.

I'm aware the Redskins have the cap penalty, but when you see them go and spend $3 million on Cedric Griffin et al, you kind of understand that the penalty isn't preventing them from getting the players they wanted. No one was going to spend more than $1 million on CedGriff. They still got Garcon, Morgan, and matched the Chargers offer on Royal.

There will be plenty of money to spend this offseason, and they can always backload guaranteed money into 2014 to ensure someone they covet signs here. They won't be limited at all by the cap penalty.

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Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

GoSkins!

What do you mean here? I get that the trade for RG3 is aggressive, but how is finding a franchise RB in the 6th round and developing a strong offensive line aggressive? I would think that developing the strong line would be consistent with a good plan, as would bringing in a good fit at RB and good blocking WRs for the running game. I still consider finding Morris pure luck more than anything else. I guess one could argue that a management plan that calls for drafting a diamond in the rough RB in late rounds year after year until you find thet right guy is a "plan" but I'm not sure. At any rate, excepting RG3, to me the moves seem very different than those of Gibbs 2.0.

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Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. A. Einstien

Chico23231

Im not so sure, you think serious FA like Andre Smith, Jarius Byrd would be ok with waiting an additional year to get their money? I think that might work for guys already on the team who look to resign, but guys coming into the team...not sure.

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Ready for the Draft.

GTripp0012

In Morris' case, it was more that he started day 1 than was selected. And I'm aware that Shanahan had a long history of doing such a thing, but still, we've come a long way from the Larry Johnson/Willie Parker days. I agree with you that it's luck to an extent.

The OL was pieced together through a lot of different methods, including street free agents, pricey free agents, and a high draft pick. Key there is the durability of the players they've assembled.

RG3 was the big one. It had to work and it had to work fast to get us where we are right now. We traded for a potential difference maker in the playoffs, someone who we could not have gotten later in the draft. Russell Wilson notwithstanding.

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Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

GTripp0012

Well, I mean, they would still be getting a bulk of their money in year one, just that the total amount of guaranteed money would include 2014 base salary. It's still about who offers the most guaranteed money.

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Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

CRedskinsRule

I guess that you can see it that way, but in my mind the question was about the plan and strategy that is being used. If you wait to see the results on the field, then, my expectation is that your answer is no.

If your boss says, we are going to do x, y, z so that we can produce 200% more widgets and you think "yeah right, we will see if 200% more widgets are made" he didn't get your buy in. If he says it, and you think "hot da** 200% more widgets means I can get that new car" and then run out and buy it tomorrow, you bought into his plan fully.

No one who said yes is saying that every year in the future is going to be perfection, only that they believe the plan will take us to the better place. Once the results are known, then you aren't buying into the plan, you are just rejoicing (or moping) about the outcome.

As for not enough poll options, well, isn't that what the following dialogue is for. ie I voted no, because I don't think we have seen a solid building of the defensive backfield. Or I voted yes, because Matty and Smoot did, and I want to be a mod some day.

GTripp0012

I think you make a good point re: complicating my own position, but I'm not necessarily waiting for next years results to buy in only next years process (offseason).

A year ago, I would have been a clear no. A lot has changed since then, mainly that I overreacted to the cost associated with the RG3 trade, as well as the fact that I thought the Shanahans would be a limiting factor on his development. So far, they've been the opposite, and that is to their credit.

There are still some really sloppy things about the process but if they continue to get the big things right, they are going to be successful. Fixing the defense (and special teams) becomes the next big thing, as well as developing the passing game on a year to year basis.

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Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

FRPLG

One thing that is important to remember is that no team has one giant master "plan". There's too much that organizations cannot control. What we're really talking about is the philosophy and approach. Each off-season you devise a plan for player acquisition (among other things like how you conduct scouting and so forth) that fits your philosophy and approach...then once the season rolls around you have a different plan for how you're going to get the product onto the field in a way that reflects your philosophy. Anyone can quibble with the various parts of those plans and how they fit, or don't fit, a sound philosophy. To me it really comes down to: are we aimed at doing things that will give us the best shot to build a solid organization that can win year after year? If so, are the steps we're taking aligned with that strategy. I would say unequivocally we're aimed at that and our basic approach seems sound. Certainly many decisions made have worked while some have not. But to me there are not a lot of decisions that have been made that weren't made in good faith towards building a good organization.

Again, there is doing things the right way and doing the right things, They're not the same.

In the past our strategy was for crap...we're close so make a few big moves to win now. On top of that the decisions made to match that strategy we're bad.

I can't see how ANYTHING about our basic current philosophy that is all that debatable. Particular moves though are another thing.

FRPLG

I think it will be very interesting to see what we do this off-season...we have some decisions to make regarding current players, as noted, and we'll be coming off a very solid rebuilding year but with some obvious work to be done. The inclination to push all the chips in will be strong but I don't think it'd be the right move. Big off-season coming up in my opinion. It's one reason I'd mainly wait to do an extension with Shanny.

los panda

it will be.

very, very exciting times.
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
5th
6th
7th

not counting on getting any cap penalty money back. our last 2 drafts have been rock solid, i expect that to continue. tons of talent on the fa market, too, sizzling

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JoeRedskin

From the Should Shanahan Be Fired thread, 10/28/12 @ 6:09 (Sorry can’t reference quote b/c thread has been closed):

Rather than rehash much of what others have already pointed out, specifically CRed and his analogy as to what constitutes “buying in, I am simply seeing if you still stand by this unequivocal condemnation of those believing that, even prior to the win streak, MS’s actions warranted a full five years.

Further, I would suggest that some of your statements in the recent discussion belie your previous unequivocal condemnation of myself (and others) who, prior to the recent winning streak, believed that a systemic turnaround had already begun entitling MS to his full five years.

Preliminarily, accepting that you:

You point to several events/transactions that have been evident to me (and, again, others) since MS's first year.

The current line - which I agree has been critical to the Streak - has been developed since 2010, as you point out, through free agency and the draft. The line as currently assembled shows a clear bias for a particular type of lineman and MS has – except for the RT position – developed and signed lineman who fit that description (Williams, Montgomery, Lichtensteiger, Chester) while discarding those who did not. (Rinehart, Dockery). Have we fully developed the line in year three? No. However, have the “high priced free agents” used to supplement the street free agents and the draft picks prevented us from addressing other areas of need? If you believe so, please cite me some specifics b/c I don't see it. In addition, we have now have a relatively youthful starting five that create the luxury of developing internal replacements (e.g.LeRibeus who received solid reviews for his play along with Mo Hurt who was an adequate replacement when called upon). This simply did not happen in one year and was seen by myself and others as a conscience and necessary step to long term winning.

Similarly, the development of depth, for me (and I believe others), has always been tied to the types of free agents acquired and the contracts given to them. Something you admit
For me, the improvement in the "the contracts thing" allows for prolonged success b/c it provides flexibility in both the aquisition and retention of talent. Something not a strength of the Cerrato years (to say the least).

The development of depth and acquiring specific types of supporting talent has been essential to the reformation of the roster in a manner that creates a team in which a talent like RGIII can succeed. It didn’t happen over night, it began in 2010 and has been visible to any who have looked at the depth being developed and the manner in which the roster was constructed. The ability of both rookies (Crawford, LeRibeus) and long term subs (Jackson) to step up, along with the obvious development of talent – both starting and depth - over the last two years (Darrell Young (who BTW, in 2010, MS converted to a FB from a LB), Mo Hurt, A.Robinson, P. Riley, T. Williams, Royster, Kerrigan, Hankerson, Jenkins) to me is a validation of the “Shanaplan”.

Here, to me, is your supreme arrogance obvious. The “two week” turnaround – excuse me “different direction” - could not have happened but for the two years of ground work done by Shanahan/Allen in assembling a roster capable of ripping off seven wins in a row and, during which, several players obtained and/or retained by MS, not named RGIII or AlMo, contributed and, in fact, were crucial to the sustaining the streak. (Of course, none of this references the ability of MS/KS to modify their existing scheme to maximize the talents of RGIII).

You can choose to believe the Streak is simply a redux of 2005, 2007, I would suggest, based on the way the roster has been constructed, it is something more. I believed this before the Streak occurred and, regardless of the outcome of Sunday’s game, I will continue to believe that this team will reap the benefits of the Shanaplan into next year and beyond.

Finally, you assert

I agree that the handling of the contracts coming due will be of utmost importance in continuing the work of the past three off-seasons. Unlike you, apparently, I am confident that they will be handled appropriately. We may lose some players, but I don’t expect us to see the “Archuletta rather than Ryan Clark” type of missteps characteristic of the Cerrato era. ShanAllen have shown a consistent ability to identify and obtain talent in a manner that does not bust the budget. The fact that we could take a last minute $18M cap hit and still sign the talent we did this past off-season, in my opinion, provides more than reasonable support for that belief. Given their success at identifying and developing the current talent on the roster, I would suggest that they will bring the same budget managing process to the retention of talent.

Simply put, your original statement was incredibly arrogant, short sighted and self-serving. Further, your own subsequent statements demonstrate its falsity.

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My Little Pony: Friendship is magic? or ... a repressive matriarchal society where individuals' roles are defined by their immutable physical characteristics and governance is reserved for those who demonstrate the genetic purity of the pony master race?