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Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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View Poll Results: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
Yes 91 95.79%
No 4 4.21%
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:41 AM   #76
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
Looking at Locker and Sanchez last night, aren't you guys glad we didn't end up with either of those? ......better yet, imagine us with Gabbert.


We need to thank Mike nightly as we dodged bullets like Neo.
I thought the samething last night. Put Ponder on that list an unimpressed as well. RG3 has been head and tails above them.

A guy who I was not high on who has kinda surprised me and think he has a better future than the 4 above is Tannehill. I think for a completely offensive talentless team outside of the average Reggie Bush, he's done decent. He needs serious help at every skill position.

I think Locker needs to stay healthy in order to give him a fair chance, but the ability to on the field is part of the evaluation. He cant take a hit to save his life. He is very overrated scrambler with the ball.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:44 AM   #77
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
Its really arrogant to hold yourself up as the model for "the right way" to build a team while winning 40% of your games, but we're quickly getting away from the point.

It's going to take a long run of consistent, good play to balance out those first two years, and it's not something you can turn around in a five week period of the regular season. Those who say otherwise are jumping to conclusions. But it's been a really good start.
Your hypothesis is rooted in the assumption that your evaluation of the last two years is correct. Perhaps the winning ways simply took a few new players and a little chemistry to finally come together.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:57 AM   #78
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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I've bought into the 2012 Redskins. I'm not going to pretend that I had some great faith that the season wasn't over at 3-6. I had assumed it was. Mike Shanahan and co have changed my mind on the direction of the season. I believe they are going to finish as NFC East champs.

Long term, I mean its Griffin's show here. Sunday was cool and all, but long term it's going to be difficult to sustain that offense without more of a burden on the quarterback. I think he can handle it. I'm not sure he isn't the MVP of the league this year.
I think your wrong here or either poor word choice. I dont think its a burden to ask a guy to do more, who has already asked to do more. I think the question of MVP was answered last weekend, a resounding NO. The team is better, no question. Not only in coaching, but in talent. I think you look to players like Pauleson, Morris, Darrell Young, Rob Jackson, Riley, Coefield, Hankerson(shakey when I type that) and Garcon as proof. I also think the concept of chemistry and leadership, yes intangibles you probably hate, is playing a larger role. Chester and Monty are fully comfortable now in ZBS as an example and obviously RG3 is providing the leadership. Gotta give Shanny and Bruce credit.

What stat is telling of successful Shanny teams in the past? The same answer to which NFL team leads the league in rushing? Washington Redskins. The burden is not on RG3, but running the ball effectively.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:00 AM   #79
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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I think your wrong here or either poor word choice. I dont think its a burden to ask a guy to do more, who has already asked to do more. I think the question of MVP was answered last weekend, a resounding NO. The team is better, no question. Not only in coaching, but in talent. I think you look to players like Pauleson, Morris, Darrell Young, Rob Jackson, Riley, Coefield, Hankerson(shakey when I type that) and Garcon as proof. I also think the concept of chemistry and leadership, yes intangibles you probably hate, is playing a larger role. Chester and Monty are fully comfortable now in ZBS as an example and obviously RG3 is providing the leadership. Gotta give Shanny and Bruce credit.

What stat is telling of successful Shanny teams in the past? The same answer to which NFL team leads the league in rushing? Washington Redskins. The burden is not on RG3, but running the ball effectively.
I think I just meant throwing more times. The offense already runs pretty exclusively through RG3.

Maybe the most interesting thing about Cousins is how Kyle went back to the Grossman pass-run balance. For whatever reason, the Redskins want to protect Griffin on third downs so that the defense cannot tee off on him, meaning they play fast pass on third and long. But with Cousins, they went back to what worked with Grossman and threw vertical.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:03 AM   #80
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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Your hypothesis is rooted in the assumption that your evaluation of the last two years is correct. Perhaps the winning ways simply took a few new players and a little chemistry to finally come together.
I lived through those two years on a week to week basis: if anything is going to convince me that I was wrong about those years, it sure isn't a narrative based on hindsight.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:09 AM   #81
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

If I told you guys that talks are in advanced stages to keep Mike and Kyle around through 2015 (which is also the length of RG3's rookie deal)...would that affect your answer
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:11 AM   #82
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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If I told you guys that talks are in advanced stages to keep Mike and Kyle around through 2015 (which is also the length of RG3's rookie deal)...would that affect your answer
Is there a succession clause (head coach in waiting) in Kyle's deal?
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:12 AM   #83
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
I think I just meant throwing more times. The offense already runs pretty exclusively through RG3.

Maybe the most interesting thing about Cousins is how Kyle went back to the Grossman pass-run balance. For whatever reason, the Redskins want to protect Griffin on third downs so that the defense cannot tee off on him, meaning they play fast pass on third and long. But with Cousins, they went back to what worked with Grossman and threw vertical.
I go back to what SS said, Kyle proved himself last week.

I thought it was funny in the second half where Cousins ran RG3 quick play fake, throw slant play. I dont remember us wearing down a defense with the run game last week in awhile. By the middle of the 3rd quarter, cleveland defense was done mentally.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:14 AM   #84
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
If I told you guys that talks are in advanced stages to keep Mike and Kyle around through 2015 (which is also the length of RG3's rookie deal)...would that affect your answer
id be very excited
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:18 AM   #85
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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Is there a succession clause (head coach in waiting) in Kyle's deal?
No idea
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:27 AM   #86
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

Also, it seems clear to me, that the locker room mentality has changed considerably in the last couple of years. Pre-Shanny, every report I have read describes favoritism running rampant - certain players having the owners ear or knowing they did not need to tow the line to start.

On the other hand, every report I have ever read, every player interview I have seen, and anything written by anyone with any insider knowledge has indicated that Shanny is all about fairness - 1st round, 5th round, UFA - you all have a shot and the one who shows the best plays. I have read interviews from players who lost their job or lost out in the competition saying "I had a fair shot and wasn't able to capitalize."

Team chemistry can be overrated when there isn't enough talent to compete. At the same time, to win on a sustained basis in this particular game requires both talent and a good working attitude. Over the last two years, we have increased our depth and talent levels, ("Awful team" Tripp? I respectfully disagree) and we have added a stud QB. Several UFA signings have provided solid players - Lichtenstieger, Monty, Chester, Wilson. Players being drafted appear to have both talent and the right attitude. Sometimes, building a roster with both the talent and attitude takes time to come together.

I just think that the Shanahan nay sayers are vastly underrating the Cerrato Stink factor. Seriously, how could anyone succeed with him in charge? Please - berating the coach in front of players, undercutting his authority at every turn, you couldn't win with the most talented team in the league under those situations. A couple of years ago, Doc Walker had Vinny on his radio show and made an off-the-cuff, but incredibly telling, remark while discussing the team under Shanny. Something along the lines of "You wouldn't understand it Vinny, they are just playing football, nothing flashy."

I think, contrary to Tripp's evaluation, that the team, even without Griffin, has the talent to succeed and was on its way to that last year. With him, it may become elite (I said "may"). Solving the QB issue was huge and creates the luxury afforded teams like NE and GB - player acquisition can be less need based. This frees up lots of resources to improve in a fundamental, depth-improving manner.

I think a big test will be when some of the younger players start playing through their contracts. Do we treat them fairly? Have we stopped ignoring unsung talent on the roster (R.Clark, A. Pierce as past examples) while we go hunting for the next big thing (A. Archuletta). If players play for us with the mentality that Shanny wants them to, will they be rewarded both on the field and in their wallet. Further, for those who do leave in search of greener pastures, will we be able to find their replacement on the roster?

If we can hold onto some good talent while replacing inevitable losses from within, THEN we will win consistently. To me, that will be the real test of Shanny's "five-year plan".
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:28 AM   #87
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

I'm somewhere in the middle of the majority of those who have bought in and wait in see in mode. Obviously, everyone is very pleased with the current results and winning streak, but let's not get too carried away. Shanahan hasn't put together Tom Coughlin type seasons here. Let's finish the season on a high note and see what we're made of over the stretch of a full 16 game season next year.

If you consider most of the past Super Bowl winners: The Giants, Patriots, Packers, and Steelers. The common thread is a franchise quarterback. Sure they have great supporting casts, great coaches, but this is by and large a quarterback driven league. To the extent that Robert continues to develop his game and steers clear of major injuries, I fully expect the Redskins to be in the playoff discussion going forward.

The more appropriate question right now, in my mind, has the franchise turned the corner? And the answer to that is emphatically, yes. I don't believe not drinking the Kool Aid makes you a skeptic or a crank or less passionate about the future of the team, it is what it is. There's an ebb and flow to winning. Teams get hot. Things come together at the right time and you're prepared to seize that moment. The truly great teams manage to overcome injuries, adversity, and setbacks and win games when they matter.

Have I bought into Shanaplan? For the here and now, yep.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:38 AM   #88
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
If I told you guys that talks are in advanced stages to keep Mike and Kyle around through 2015 (which is also the length of RG3's rookie deal)...would that affect your answer
If we truly have turned the corner and this year is the first of many 10+ game winning seasons, then they both have my vote!
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:39 AM   #89
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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I lived through those two years on a week to week basis: if anything is going to convince me that I was wrong about those years, it sure isn't a narrative based on hindsight.
Nothing is ever going to convince you that you were wrong about anything. An overstatement, perhaps, but I too have lived through the last two years and have read your posts during that course of time.

In the vast majority of your analysis, you set the parameters for the assumptions and discount that which falls outside those assumptions regardless of the value given by others. [For example: your foray into the value of Chad Reinhardt, and other such noteworthies, as proof of the talented roster inherited by Shanny; more recently the debate as to the team's "youth movement"]. Your unshakeable belief in the correctness of your underlying assumptions is admirable albeit obtuse at times.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:49 AM   #90
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Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

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I'm somewhere in the middle of the majority of those who have bought in and wait in see in mode. Obviously, everyone is very pleased with the current results and winning streak, but let's not get too carried away. Shanahan hasn't put together Tom Coughlin type seasons here. Let's finish the season on a high note and see what we're made of over the stretch of a full 16 game season next year.

If you consider most of the past Super Bowl winners: The Giants, Patriots, Packers, and Steelers. The common thread is a franchise quarterback. Sure they have great supporting casts, great coaches, but this is by and large a quarterback driven league. To the extent that Robert continues to develop his game and steers clear of major injuries, I fully expect the Redskins to be in the playoff discussion going forward.

The more appropriate question right now, in my mind, has the franchise turned the corner? And the answer to that is emphatically, yes. I don't believe not drinking the Kool Aid makes you a skeptic or a crank or less passionate about the future of the team, it is what it is. There's an ebb and flow to winning. Teams get hot. Things come together at the right time and you're prepared to seize that moment. The truly great teams manage to overcome injuries, adversity, and setbacks and win games when they matter
.

Have I bought into Shanaplan? For the here and now, yep.
Have we turned the corner? Not sure - I think we will. Again, I want to see how ShanAllen handles the coming need for talent replacement/retention. If we succeed, if the talent level is improving, players will be lost. How they are replaced is key.

Look at Houston, their D lost DeMarco Ryans & Mario Williams this past year and is still playing at a high level. Sure, their was a scheme switch. Regardless, most teams losing two pro-bowlers from the first & second level of their defense would be in serious trouble. In Houston, however, they maintained there performance. I don't recall Houston signing guys to huge UFA contracts to replace them. Instead, they retained and replaced from inside - w/ guys on the roster that nobody may have known before plus good drafting (J.J. Watt makes up for a lot of other talent defeciencies).
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